Need help with a Traditions percussion Hawken kit

[Greg_E]

I am part way through putting my Traditions Hawken kit together, and what might be typical, there are a lot of problems. Biggest besides a general lack of consistency is the lock. Fixed a problem tonight where one of the screws was pulling the entire thing in too far due to lack of support. Installed a brass tube to draw down between lock and far side of the stock.

But still have a problem where the hammer does not strike the cap square, not ever close. I gave half hearted tries to rotate the drum either way thinking I could remove it and machine a slight amount off the face to make it line up, but wouldn't budge. Do these thread in like I think they should? Just need more muscle and maybe some heat from a torch?

Attached is a picture of the problem. Yes it looks odd, I've nickel plated it and the barrel, and pretty much everything except the screws will be plated when I'm done.

 

[Davey Boy]

Take the barrel out of the wood.

Use a nipple wrench and remove the nipple.

Put heat on the nipple drum.

I would try to heat it to about 400-450 degrees F, use an infrared temperature thing like the Harbor Freight ones to check the temperature. Since you nickle plated it don't use a flame. I only say heat it if they may have screwed it in with thread locker glue, and 400-450F is enough to break the bond.

You don't want to scratch the drum or the barrel so be careful.

I would try a piece of leather and a vise grip to really get on to the drum, if it feels like it doesn't want to come unscrewed, then tighten it to see if it moves just a little and stop. Then try to remove it.

Try to post more pictures until they show up in your message body. It's too much work for some of us to click on a box to see a picture. You will get more intelligent replies if more people see what you are trying to do.

Keep us informed of your progress.

All of it needs to come apart sometime or another and that is part of the learning process, so no worries.

dave

 

[64Springer]

That drum has a right hand thread and the drum shoulder butts up against the barrel. If you have to index the drum clockwise for the nipple to line up, it'll never happen. It's seated and tight. You'd have to remove the drum, take material off of the drum shoulder and reinstall and index as needed. But then the nipple will move more towards the center of the barrel, left. Then the nipple may hit the hammer recess cup. It's a little dance to keep everything aligned. How well can you dance?

If you have to index counter clockwise, the drum will be loose when you're done. Don't do that.

I had one so out of alignment that I ground off the hammer recess and simply beveled the hammer face to match the nipple angle.

Good luck.

P.S. I saw your picture. I would not touch it. That is lined up enough to go BANG. Lined up better than a lot of them that are out there.

 

[Greg_E]

Ok, I may have been adding images the wrong way. Lets try a front to back version. Glad to know that the drum is attached the way I think it should be. There is another fix that might work... I can make a spacer for the nipple, or I can try to find a longer nipple, would this be a good solution?View attachment IMG_1568.JPG

Edit, that didn't work so good either, the preview was correct so I went with it. Ill figure it out after a bit.

 

[Davey Boy]

If you cut so much off the drum that the hammer no longer fits, buy another drum or 2, or 3 and practice.

Once you get 'er done, you will be an expert.

 

[tgfrench]

Why not just heat the hammer and bend to shape

 

[2 shots]

looks like the barrel needs to come back some, drum should be supported by the lock

 

[bang]

If you have a drill press or drill with large enough chuck you can take the shoulder down to get tad more turn.

 

[Greg_E]

I have a small milling machine that can take up to a 1/2 inch mill, also a rotary table with a 3 jaw chuck. Cutting as little as 0.001 off the drum won't be a challenge if I can get it loose. Haven't tried again since posting. Also have a small propane/mapp torch and a small butane crack pipe torch for heat.

Think I can get enough heat in it with a decent electric heat gun?

The lock is touching the drum, just about opposite the nipple, should be well supported when getting smashed.

 

[Davey Boy]

Small milling machine, now we are talking...

Do the leather and vise grip on the drum, secure the barrel in a solid vise and use leather or aluminum jaw protectors covered with rubber. Squeeze the death out of the barrel so all your energy is well focused on the drum rotation. Well focused means (to me) no offset torque when trying to unscrew the drum.

Now that everything is solid and you aren't worried about scratching the kitchen table, unscrew the drum. If it just won't come out without snapping it off, leave the barrel in the vise, just heat the very end of the drum with the crack pipe torch. Before you heat the drum you can put a little cutting oil on your finger and just touch the drum. When the oil is smoking stop heating and take it out.

There is no need of tightening a drum that tight into the barrel that you have to go through all this. So don't overtighten the drum when you reinstall it.

If you have a 5C collet and block you could use it to really cinch up on the drum instead of using leather and vise grips.

The other problem not mentioned here is molecular bonding of the metals when in close contact. It doesn't happen frequently but in this case if it has, the drum will shear off and leave the rest welded into the barrel. With a milling machine you can set up to drill out and chase the threads with a tap. Then install a new drum.

dave

 

[smo]

Have you tried lower the forward end of the barrel deeper into the inlet?

And it does appear the barrel could go back a little further…
I think lowering the depth of the barrel channel slightly will square up the hammer on the nipple..

 

[senseisugarbear]

First thing I'd try before altering ,heating, cutting, etc. Would be to loosen the front and rear lockplate screws.draw down the rear to see if you can improve alignment, if so tighten the front. then pop a few caps if it works, finish the build.worth a try , don't cost nothing, or ruin parts.........Be Safe >>>>>>Wally

 

[springfield art]

There are five of these coming up at auction I follow soon. That's a goodly number for one auction date!

 

[Greg_E]

5 rifle kits? You might get a couple that are decent if the price is good. The lock is decent, my trigger is rough but functions, the barrel seems good with a hook breech. So if you consider that auction as parts, it might be worth your time.

 

[Greg_E]

I'll have to look at tipping the barrel down in the front, that might work.

I played with the lock screws a bit and improved alignment a little, but the lock plate is very flexible and the "rear" screw which is in the middle of the pate, easily bends the plate in. I put a brass tube in to limit how much that screw can pull. Think I may add a third screw and the back of the plate which is supported by the stock like the front screw.