Need I.D. help gun #2

[exhibitjoe]

Here's another gun from our museum's collection that I want to use in a new hunting exhibit that I'm working on. It's been used and abused and that is what I like about it. It has a Joseph Gulcher lock on it (probably not the original). Barrel is 33.5" long and .5" diameter. No other marks that I can see.

Any thoughts on age, where it might have been made, etc? What style would you call it?

Thanks for your help!

 

[Rancocas]

That old gal has had a rough life. Though, at one time she must have been a beauty.
No. Not the original lock. It doesn't fit the mortise or the bolster. I would put her no earlier than 1850, and probably later than that. Sort of a mid west "Ohio rifle" style, but although they were to be had, .50 caliber is on the large size for that type. But, if the owner lived in an area such as northern Wisconsin, northern Michigan, Minnesota, or even lower Canada where deer were still readily available, then .50 would be a good choice.
I have a similar rifle that I know was made in the 1850's, near Akron, Ohio, by a gunsmith name of Wareham. However, mine is a little .32 caliber. My little .32 was sometimes known as a "buggy rifle" because the type was popular for businessmen and other travelers to have it handy in the buggy in order to pot the occasional squirrel or rabbit.
Is there a half **** notch on that rifle? Mine has no half ****. The hammer is either fully down or fully cocked.
Gulcher mass produced locks and shipped them all over.

 

[Tanselman]

Your rifle appears to be from New York, based on several details: a single trigger [most rifles made farther west had double-set triggers], smaller-than-average rear spur on the guard, shorter-than-normal forestock length out to rear ramrod pipe, longer-than-normal cheekpiece with heavy incised line and almost no defined forward end toward the wrist, and somewhat odd inlays in cheek and forestock such as the star with many long, skinny points... all typical details of a New York rifle. If this 1845-1850 rifle had double keys in the forestock, many collectors would call it a "plains rifle," but being from the East, it has only a single key and would be called a half-stocked hunting rifle. Its large bore makes it incorrect to call it a "squirrel rifle" as many small caliber rifles were called during the same era.

The heavy bore was probably made for either:
1) hunting large animals in New York's northeastern Adirondack or Catskill Mountain, where large game [moose, deer, bear, etc.] were still plentiful, or
2) someone heading west where they may encounter uncertain or dangerous circumstances in the mid-1800s.

As mentioned, the lock is not the original one, but the gun has always been percussion based on its mid-century style and single lock bolt. The barrel seems a little short and may have been shortened a couple inches at one time, a common practice on percussion rifles when the percussion cap fulminates began eroding the barrel wall around the side lug. Heavily used rifles were often shortened several times during their working years, losing about 3/4" to 1"of barrel each time at the breech end. But without a hands-on inspection, it can't be determined if actually shortened, and if so, by how much.

The curly maple stock suggests the gun was probably made well outside of New York's major cities where walnut stocks were preferred. Every smaller town also had its gunsmith, an essential tradesman of the day, but without initials or a name on the barrel behind the rear sight, the gun's actual origin will probably never be known.

Shelby Gallien

 

[sheriff john]

Perhaps the rifle started out as a smaller caliber? Every time they were "freshed out", the bore got larger. Pretty obvious that old girl had an active life. Just a thought. Have no clue as to how one would determine that.

 

[SOLANCO]

The Moravian star suggests a german maker or owner.

 

[exhibitjoe]

The Moravian star suggests a german maker or owner.

Interesting, we did have some Moravian settlements here (Door Count, WI) in the mid 1800's

 

[exhibitjoe]

Your rifle appears to be from New York, based on several details: a single trigger [most rifles made farther west had double-set triggers], smaller-than-average rear spur on the guard, shorter-than-normal forestock length out to rear ramrod pipe, longer-than-normal cheekpiece with heavy incised line and almost no defined forward end toward the wrist, and somewhat odd inlays in cheek and forestock such as the star with many long, skinny points... all typical details of a New York rifle. If this 1845-1850 rifle had double keys in the forestock, many collectors would call it a "plains rifle," but being from the East, it has only a single key and would be called a half-stocked hunting rifle. Its large bore makes it incorrect to call it a "squirrel rifle" as many small caliber rifles were called during the same era.

The heavy bore was probably made for either:
1) hunting large animals in New York's northeastern Adirondack or Catskill Mountain, where large game [moose, deer, bear, etc.] were still plentiful, or
2) someone heading west where they may encounter uncertain or dangerous circumstances in the mid-1800s.

As mentioned, the lock is not the original one, but the gun has always been percussion based on its mid-century style and single lock bolt. The barrel seems a little short and may have been shortened a couple inches at one time, a common practice on percussion rifles when the percussion cap fulminates began eroding the barrel wall around the side lug. Heavily used rifles were often shortened several times during their working years, losing about 3/4" to 1"of barrel each time at the breech end. But without a hands-on inspection, it can't be determined if actually shortened, and if so, by how much.

The curly maple stock suggests the gun was probably made well outside of New York's major cities where walnut stocks were preferred. Every smaller town also had its gunsmith, an essential tradesman of the day, but without initials or a name on the barrel behind the rear sight, the gun's actual origin will probably never be known.

Shelby Gallien

Really great info, Thanks!

 

[exhibitjoe]

That old gal has had a rough life. Though, at one time she must have been a beauty.
No. Not the original lock. It doesn't fit the mortise or the bolster. I would put her no earlier than 1850, and probably later than that. Sort of a mid west "Ohio rifle" style, but although they were to be had, .50 caliber is on the large size for that type. But, if the owner lived in an area such as northern Wisconsin, northern Michigan, Minnesota, or even lower Canada where deer were still readily available, then .50 would be a good choice.
I have a similar rifle that I know was made in the 1850's, near Akron, Ohio, by a gunsmith name of Wareham. However, mine is a little .32 caliber. My little .32 was sometimes known as a "buggy rifle" because the type was popular for businessmen and other travelers to have it handy in the buggy in order to pot the occasional squirrel or rabbit.
Is there a half **** notch on that rifle? Mine has no half ****. The hammer is either fully down or fully cocked.
Gulcher mass produced locks and shipped them all over.

Thanks! The owner was in Northern WI, (Door County) and there was still a good deer and bear population here in the mid 1800's. I'll have to check to see if it has a half ****.

 

[Tanselman]

I'm not sure this is a Moravian star. Moravian stars usually have four very large points with the two horizontal ones being the longest, the two vertical points a little shorter, and four much smaller, almost tiny, points at the intersections of the four large points... making eight total points, four large and four very small.

Shelby Gallien

 

[D.Summers]

That does tend to be true!!

 

[oldwood]

Hard to say , though the bore size leads toward hunting deer size game or bigger. Would say it was always a percussion gun. The brass trigger guard looks like a late period Pa. long gun type ,and probably was available for sale from eastern Pa. , to Pittsburgh , and down the Ohio River to the western border of Ohio. It must have been a fine serviceable rifle in it's day.