Need some help to id this replica

[OB OBrien]

Have been looking into what rifle my friend has from his Father's collection. It's a full stock percussion with three bands holding the barrel to the stock. I looked it up in my 1975 Lyman Black Powder handbook and have found two that are similar. A semi-military Whitworth with three bands and a Springfield 1861 .58 caliber musket. It says this three banded rifled musket fired the .58 Minie ball with telling effect.

Here's a full length picture of it.

Here's a picture of the lock. It says Navy Arms on it.

Here's a picture of the front end "Muzzle. It miked out close to .58. With a standard mike. Note the sling swivel. There is also one on the trigger guard. There is a small spring lock that must be depressed to slide the barrel band, off.

Here's a close up of the end of the barrel "Crown" Look close and you can see one of the three brass lands.

Hope all of these can help identify this pristine rifle. I ran a patch down it and got some very light rust. So I cleaned it and oiled it with Hoppe's #9

Thanks for your help.
OB

 

[RADeO]

The picture appears a bit dark to me, as I see only two barrel bands. If so, and the barrel is 33" long it is most likely a reproduction Remington Zouave rifle musket imported by Navy Arms.

Your friend has a good-quality piece there and it should be a dependable and accurate shooter. I hope he wants to keep it.

 

[Trot]

Yes it is an 1863 Remington sometimes known as a "Zouave" rifle replica. It is a two band rifle, not sure where you see the third band. Three groove rifling, not brass though. The bore is probably discolored by rust or possibly lead buildup. These rifles can be good shooters when you find the right load.

 

[OB OBrien]

I'm Sorry. Guess I'm getting old. Yes it has two bands.
Some more info on this rifle.
The barrel is round and larger at the breech, smaller at the muzzle. It has a 1 in 24 twist and is 32 inches long. There are definitely three brass or copper colored lands inside the barrel. It is not rust. They stand proud to the grooves. The barrel is stamped on top, Navy Arms Co. On the left side it says "Antonio Zoli Gardone Vt. Made in Italy. Below that there are several small stampings, "FARA" and a 5 digit serial number. Near the muzzle on the right hand side is a bayonet mount. The rear sight has three flip up parts with different heights of stepped "V"s.

As I said this rifle is from a friend's, Father's collection of guns.
His Dad collected everything. Old cameras, Typewriters, cars from the 1930s from europe and all sorts of stuff. I don't think this rifle has ever been fired. My friend's father's armory only had 22 caliber guns and 2 black powder rifles. There was no black powder, balls or minies any where, ever, so he says. He has never known it to be fired and has no intentions to do so.

So what is the rifle worth? It's going to be put up for auction to satisfy his kinfolk. Any ideas?

Thanks for all your help and your help in helping me count to two instead of three. (LOL w/a small sheepish grin)

OB

 

[paulvallandigham]

Glad to help you. However, I believe we all want to assure you in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that there are NO BRASS or COPPER Bands Inside that barrel. What discoloration may appear there is due to whatever has been put inside the barrel to preserve it- the barrel is steel.

At least you have learned now how and where to look for identifying marks, and labels. These guns were good shooters. I don't know that they have any collector interest, because thousands were made and sold here in the USA for all the re-enactment events during the Bi-Centennial, and Centennial period during the 1950s, 60's and 70's. Now, If your friend had an original gun in good shape in his collection, that IS worth a lot of money these days.

 

[Semisane]

I paid $250 for for the Navy Army Zoli Zouave that I bought in 2007. It came with 25lb. of pure lead and a handful of Minnie balls. The seller claimed he bought it new in the 1950's.

Here's mine (that's not the original rear sight - I replaced it with a home made peep).

It shoots patched balls real well.

 

[arquebus]

It has a 1 in 24 twist and is 32 inches long.

The Zouave (originals & most replicas) have a 1:66" twist rate. Did you measure the twist rate yourself? The shallow rifling on rifle-muskets can be difficult to measure using the ramrod & tight patch method, as there's not a lot for the patch to grab on to. Either way, I'm sure you'll find the twist rate is MUCH slower than 1:24".
Also, one more 'nit-pick'! The barrel should be 33" & is measures from the muzzle & should include the breech plug. Most replicas have a seam line where the plug fits into the barrel.
Nice rifle anyway, Replica Zouaves in good condition usually go for $250-$300.
By the way, 'Zouave' is only a nickname for these rifles, the originals were the Remington Model 1863. Also, to confirm what others have already said, the lands are most definately not brass or bronze, there is nothing but steel in that barrel.

 

[Trot]

Yup, as Paul says absolutely no brass lands. They generally sell for anywhere from $250 [usually sell pretty quickly] to around $375 [usually hang around a while before selling].

 

[hanshi]

I agree with Paul and Trot. I had a Zouave back in the 60s and into the 70s and liked it very much. It was a good shooter and it came from Navy Arms too. It has long gone away and I now have the .54 US M1841 "Mississippi" rifle which I like even more. When I got mine it was around $70 new. They are quite common and still being made. They usually sell for a good bit less than the Mississippi rifle; there is no value to them other than as a very good shooting and hunting rifle. I wouldn't mind having one again.

 

[OB OBrien]

Thanks folks for all the excellent info. I returned the rifle to my friend this afternoon and told him about all that I had found. Have my bid in to buy it when the proper time comes.

Now back to coning my new 50 cal GM 1 in 70 barrel.

 

[RADeO]

Now back to coning my new 50 cal GM 1 in 70 barrel.

Please let us know how the coning job works out. I did one myself about two years back.