Needing some answers to some questions

[Murphinator]

I joined this forum yesterday after stumbling upon it during a Google search. I've been floating around reading threads and well I believe it's time that I ask some questions and find some answers, possibly gaining a little knowledge along the way. That being said here are my questions.
1). I want to get a 46" barrel Flintlock rifle in .40, .45 or .50 calibers maybe even .54. I want one of considerable length as even when I was younger watching the old frontier/ Colonial movies the "Smoke Poles" were always cool looking. Would a caliber like .45 be effective enough for ranges of 50 yards to maybe 75 yards maximum. I doubt I will be making shots like these on the normal but I just figured I would ask. Does anyone hunt with a .40 or .45 normally if so what are your results ?

2). For smaller game ( Squirrels, Rabbits, birds) would a Rifle of smaller caliber be a good choice or should I try to find a shotgun ( I know that's not what the shot firing muzzleloaders are called but I can't remember the name for them). Opinions here would be nice as well as I have actually only ever hunted Deer with a Muzzleloader and it was a shot of a mere 14 yards as the deer ran up to me and stopped.

3). What are good powders to use ? I've been seeing a lot of "Out of Stock" on Black Powder and I know you can't use the fake stuff in flintlocks. Should I also buy a horn for powder and a bag for all the stuff like on Black Powder TV ?

I dont want to ask any more questions as I know these questions leave a lot of gaps and I will try to answer as many posts as possible if anyone does reply to this post. I'm sorry I cant really elaborate better but I am kinda just walking in the dark looking for a light switch right now. Thank you to everyone who replies and lends a word or two to this post. If these questions make me sound a bit dull or daft it's probably because I am lol.

 

[Versanaut]

Welcome aboard,

1) I've hunted these past 6 years with a .45 cal roundball. Mostly from a 32" Percussion rifle. This past year with a 42" flinter. I've taken a dear every year. None ran more than 20-30 yards. 4 were pass-thrus. 2 went through both sides of the ribcage and lodged under the skin on the opposite side. My personal limit is 75 yards as I want to make an ethical shot with regards to my own capabilities and environmental factors. I do regularly hit a 12" plate at 100 yards with the flintlock so I know it is definitely capable. I am a big fan of the 45. Easy on the lead and shoulder!

2) You can, and you will see several folks on here, go after small game with the 45. Perhaps a little big/overkill, but certainly not unheard of. I would personally use a smaller caliber myself. My son hunts squirrels with a 32 cal. 36 is really popular for small game.

3) Powder opinions will run all OVER the board. Truth is, all brands will go boom, make smoke, and if you do your part, park the ball where ya pointed it. I personally use 70 to 75 grains FFFg to hunt. As to which brand, I use whatever I can get. I don't shoot well enough to worry to much about the differences between brand performance. I used to use a plastic ketchup bottle, upgraded to a CVA brass flask, Bought a spot for the powder can (used it for a long time), and now use a horn and an antler measure. Do you NEED a horn, ball bag, flint wallet, possibles bag, and all of that? Of course not. But given you like the 'romantic side' of shooting BP you are sure gonna want it!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Each of your calibre choices has distinct pluses and minuses. I like them all very much…nice selection.

In my opinion, you’ll most likely find your barrel choice of 46” to produce a firearm that is decidedly barrel heavy, especially in the .50 calibre. Maybe find a rifle with a 46” barrel in a calibre you like and hold it, to see if you would truly enjoy lugging it around. 42” barrels are readily available, and 36” barreled guns are quite comfortable in the field.

Both the .40 & .45 are efficient calibres and have a decided following. They are both effective on light to medium big game, but you’ll need to check your local game laws….here in Colorado, we can use both calibres for deer sized big game, but the .40 calibre must be loaded with a conical bullet. I like both of these calibres, as I can shoot them all day with out burning a lot of powder and lead. Between the .50 & .54 calibres, the .54 is more efficient at converting powder to velocity…but I like them both. Once you get to .50 calibre and above, your use of resources goes up…meaning more powder and lead is consumed during a day of shooting at the range. I tend to shoot my smaller calibres more often as they sip powder instead of gulping with each shot. The bigger calibres shine during hunting season for deer and elk.

Its fun having multiple calibre selections…so if you wish to hunt small game with a smaller calibre, that’s great. But realize that with these firearms, each load is a custom load. You can load a .50 calibre up for big game and load it down for smaller game. For years my only muzzleloader was a CVA mountain rifle, great for deer, little light for elk, but it’s calibre never stopped me from using it to hunt squirrels or rabbits. The .40, by itself is a good medium big game rifle and an excellent small game firearm…maybe consider a classic smoothbore as a fun change of pace, you’ll be able to add winged items to your smokepole forays.

There’s a lot of opinions as to powders and accoutrements. That is most likely personal taste. I shoot mostly flintlocks, and there is no better powder yet developed that beats traditional black powder to prime the lock. You could shoot most everything you want with fffg, though the .54 calibre would do better with ffg (my opinion, others will disagree). Plan on getting some type of shooting bag, leather is nice…I’ve shot from a simple home made canvas shooting bag for most of 40 years. I have the leather to make a nice shooting bag, I just presently lack the inclination. Some things to get are the before mentioned shooting bag, cleaning jag, patching materials, knife to cut patches, powder horn (or at least something safe to store your powder while shooting), caps if you go the percussion route. This is an amazing sport and is sure to test your pocket book a time or six.

 

[Dave Dworshak]

Sound advice Versanut. Start simple. Grow from there.

 

[Murphinator]

Welcome aboard,

1) I've hunted these past 6 years with a .45 cal roundball. Mostly from a 32" Percussion rifle. This past year with a 42" flinter. I've taken a dear every year. None ran more than 20-30 yards. 4 were pass-thrus. 2 went through both sides of the ribcage and lodged under the skin on the opposite side. My personal limit is 75 yards as I want to make an ethical shot with regards to my own capabilities and environmental factors. I do regularly hit a 12" plate at 100 yards with the flintlock so I know it is definitely capable. I am a big fan of the 45. Easy on the lead and shoulder!

2) You can, and you will see several folks on here, go after small game with the 45. Perhaps a little big/overkill, but certainly not unheard of. I would personally use a smaller caliber myself. My son hunts squirrels with a 32 cal. 36 is really popular for small game.

3) Powder opinions will run all OVER the board. Truth is, all brands will go boom, make smoke, and if you do your part, park the ball where ya pointed it. I personally use 70 to 75 grains FFFg to hunt. As to which brand, I use whatever I can get. I don't shoot well enough to worry to much about the differences between brand performance. I used to use a plastic ketchup bottle, upgraded to a CVA brass flask, Bought a spot for the powder can (used it for a long time), and now use a horn and an antler measure. Do you NEED a horn, ball bag, flint wallet, possibles bag, and all of that? Of course not. But given you like the 'romantic side' of shooting BP you are sure gonna want it!

Thanks for the reply definitely a lot of useful information. Definitely the kind of information I need too.

 

[Murphinator]

Each of your calibre choices has distinct pluses and minuses. I like them all very much…nice selection.

In my opinion, you’ll most likely find your barrel choice of 46” to produce a firearm that is decidedly barrel heavy, especially in the .50 calibre. Maybe find a rifle with a 46” barrel in a calibre you like and hold it, to see if you would truly enjoy lugging it around. 42” barrels are readily available, and 36” barreled guns are quite comfortable in the field.

Both the .40 & .45 are efficient calibres and have a decided following. They are both effective on light to medium big game, but you’ll need to check your local game laws….here in Colorado, we can use both calibres for deer sized big game, but the .40 calibre must be loaded with a conical bullet. I like both of these calibres, as I can shoot them all day with out burning a lot of powder and lead. Between the .50 & .54 calibres, the .54 is more efficient at converting powder to velocity…but I like them both. Once you get to .50 calibre and above, your use of resources goes up…meaning more powder and lead is consumed during a day of shooting at the range. I tend to shoot my smaller calibres more often as they sip powder instead of gulping with each shot. The bigger calibres shine during hunting season for deer and elk.

Its fun having multiple calibre selections…so if you wish to hunt small game with a smaller calibre, that’s great. But realize that with these firearms, each load is a custom load. You can load a .50 calibre up for big game and load it down for smaller game. For years my only muzzleloader was a CVA mountain rifle, great for deer, little light for elk, but it’s calibre never stopped me from using it to hunt squirrels or rabbits. The .40, by itself is a good medium big game rifle and an excellent small game firearm…maybe consider a classic smoothbore as a fun change of pace, you’ll be able to add winged items to your smokepole forays.

There’s a lot of opinions as to powders and accoutrements. That is most likely personal taste. I shoot mostly flintlocks, and there is no better powder yet developed that beats traditional black powder to prime the lock. You could shoot most everything you want with fffg, though the .54 calibre would do better with ffg (my opinion, others will disagree). Plan on getting some type of shooting bag, leather is nice…I’ve shot from a simple home made canvas shooting bag for most of 40 years. I have the leather to make a nice shooting bag, I just presently lack the inclination. Some things to get are the before mentioned shooting bag, cleaning jag, patching materials, knife to cut patches, powder horn (or at least something safe to store your powder while shooting), caps if you go the percussion route. This is an amazing sport and is sure to test your pocket book a time or six.

Yea I found a .40, .45 and .50 caliber rifle all of around 46" barrel length on Gunbroker. Definitely going to do some more looking though especially as I have been recommended an 18th Century fair in Frederick, MD that will happen in about a month.

 

[Rock Home Isle]

Yea I found a .40, .45 and .50 caliber rifle all of around 46" barrel length on Gunbroker. Definitely going to do some more looking though especially as I have been recommended an 18th Century fair in Frederick, MD that will happen in about a month.

If you can find one…think about a swamped barrel.

A 46” barrel has heft, the swamped barrel (if you can find one) will be lighter than a comparable strait barrel and the tapered cut and flaring of the barrel moves the firearm’s center of gravity closer to where your forehand supports the rifle, making the gun feel lighter…just food for thought. But seriously, try and physically hold a gun with a 46” barrel, before you plunk down your hard earned money.

 

[2 shots]

barrel length is only one thing to consider. rifle style and how it fits you are way more important if you are shooting it. there is a large amount of difference in drop of the heel and comb in the various schools. try some before you buy and dont like it. just a free 2 cents worth..

 

[oldwood]

We don't know your "length of Pull". (LOP). If you buy a rifle with a LOP too long for you , you might loose interest in shooting. Most normal size folks are around 13 inches , that's between crook of arm to bent trigger finger . Make sure the prospective gun , fits you well enough. I can't recommend a 46" barrel , unless you will hang it on hooks as a conversation piece. I would. The money you spend on an auction site , or Some source where you can't hold the piece in hand , and have someone that knows what there looking at tell you what your buying , might be the price of a kit gun that does fit you and work for you. .........Hope this helps................oldwood

 

[Murphinator]

We don't know your "length of Pull". (LOP). If you buy a rifle with a LOP too long for you , you might loose interest in shooting. Most normal size folks are around 13 inches , that's between crook of arm to bent trigger finger . Make sure the prospective gun , fits you well enough. I can't recommend a 46" barrel , unless you will hang it on hooks as a conversation piece. I would. The money you spend on an auction site , or Some source where you can't hold the piece in hand , and have someone that knows what there looking at tell you what your buying , might be the price of a kit gun that does fit you and work for you. .........Hope this helps................oldwood

Yea I'm 6' 3" with long arms, kinda built like a squatch. I've held and fired at a target to somewhat good effect a friends Pedersoli Pennsylvania and that has a 42" barrel so 4 extra inches shouldn't be the end of the world right ? How does one measure their length of pull ?

 

[Murphinator]

If you can find one…think about a swamped barrel.

A 46” barrel has heft, the swamped barrel (if you can find one) will be lighter than a comparable strait barrel and the tapered cut and flaring of the barrel moves the firearm’s center of gravity closer to where your forehand supports the rifle, making the gun feel lighter…just food for thought. But seriously, try and physically hold a gun with a 46” barrel, before you plunk down your hard earned money.

The two rifles I found on gunbroker are Swamped A weight barrels one is a .40 and one is a .50 caliber rifle. Ive held and done some target shooting with a friend's Pedersoli Pennsylvania and that has a 42" barrel and that felt fine so a 46" should also fit me well I would think. I'm 6'3" and built like a Sasquatch so I think I be fine with a 46" barrel. Would that extra 4 inches be detrimental ?

 

[smo]

Murphinator,

Welcome too the Forum!

Very good questions.
My best advice is , don’t rush into buying a gun…,
As mentioned, take the time too figure out what fits you best..
(1) You mentioned a .45’s effectiveness at 50 to 75 yards.. They will very accurately at these distances..
Effectiveness, depends on accuracy & the animals being hunted.

(2) Small game hunting, I prefer a smoothbore.
I’ve never killed a bird with Muzzleloading rifle.
Although in some States rifles are legal for Turkey hunting .

(3) Powder.. I shoot Goex, but that’s just my choice. Swiss I do think burns a little cleaner.
They both make smoke!

Definitely check out the market fair or any other such type event near you..

Enjoy the ride!

 

[Rock Home Isle]

The two rifles I found on gunbroker are Swamped A weight barrels one is a .40 and one is a .50 caliber rifle. Ive held and done some target shooting with a friend's Pedersoli Pennsylvania and that has a 42" barrel and that felt fine so a 46" should also fit me well I would think. I'm 6'3" and built like a Sasquatch so I think I be fine with a 46" barrel. Would that extra 4 inches be detrimental ?

Take the 42” barrel, tie 1.5 pounds of lead on the end of the barrel and see if it’s still good to go…

 

[oldwood]

Murphinator...................Length of pull , or LOP , is measured by bending your arm to a 90 deg. angle perpendicular to the upper bones in the arm , and with a ruler , measure from the inside of the arm to the first joint of the trigger finger, with the trigger finger bent , like in position of pulling the trigger. Hope that's clear enough..................oldwood

 

[Murphinator]

Take the 42” barrel, tie 1.5 pounds of lead on the end of the barrel and see if it’s still good to go…

I will ask my friend if he will let me do that with his rifle but I don't think he will. Still worth a shot though. I do have a bunch of 5'5" tunnel bars on the farm that weigh about 10-15bs each lol.

 

[Murphinator]

Murphinator...................Length of pull , or LOP , is measured by bending your arm to a 90 deg. angle perpendicular to the upper bones in the arm , and with a ruler , measure from the inside of the arm to the first joint of the trigger finger, with the trigger finger bent , like in position of pulling the trigger. Hope that's clear enough..................oldwood

Thanks for that information I definitely will do that right away.

 

[Andrewmtnman]

I understand there is a fair in PA in July with many of the best builders and their guns. That is a great place for one to touch and shoulder many different styles. I just went through this process recently and am glad I did not buy what I thought I wanted at first. The other option is to buy a fairly inexpensive rifle to scratch the immediate itch, keep that for a year or so, and in the mean time hone in on what you find you like best. I hunt deer with a .45 prb and am happy with the results.

 

[SmoothboreMurph]

I joined this forum yesterday after stumbling upon it during a Google search. I've been floating around reading threads and well I believe it's time that I ask some questions and find some answers, possibly gaining a little knowledge along the way. That being said here are my questions.
1). I want to get a 46" barrel Flintlock rifle in .40, .45 or .50 calibers maybe even .54. I want one of considerable length as even when I was younger watching the old frontier/ Colonial movies the "Smoke Poles" were always cool looking. Would a caliber like .45 be effective enough for ranges of 50 yards to maybe 75 yards maximum. I doubt I will be making shots like these on the normal but I just figured I would ask. Does anyone hunt with a .40 or .45 normally if so what are your results ?

2). For smaller game ( Squirrels, Rabbits, birds) would a Rifle of smaller caliber be a good choice or should I try to find a shotgun ( I know that's not what the shot firing muzzleloaders are called but I can't remember the name for them). Opinions here would be nice as well as I have actually only ever hunted Deer with a Muzzleloader and it was a shot of a mere 14 yards as the deer ran up to me and stopped.

3). What are good powders to use ? I've been seeing a lot of "Out of Stock" on Black Powder and I know you can't use the fake stuff in flintlocks. Should I also buy a horn for powder and a bag for all the stuff like on Black Powder TV ?

I dont want to ask any more questions as I know these questions leave a lot of gaps and I will try to answer as many posts as possible if anyone does reply to this post. I'm sorry I cant really elaborate better but I am kinda just walking in the dark looking for a light switch right now. Thank you to everyone who replies and lends a word or two to this post. If these questions make me sound a bit dull or daft it's probably because I am lol.

I've taken 2 deer with my Underhammer Percussion Rifle and they were at about 60 yards. .45 is definitely a good caliber most rifles from the "Golden Age" the 1770s and such were .45 caliber rifles. .45 consumes less lead if you Cas your own balls and less powder. I own three Brown Bess .75 calibers and a Double Barrel 10 gauge that suck down powder and make smoke clouds the size of a steam locomotive. My smallest is a .45 for deer ive never used a .40 caliber but I hear it does the same job. I have a .45, .50, .54, .69, 3 .75's, 10 gauge and a 12 gauge smoothbore. I've taken deer with all but the 10 gauge, 12 gauge and the .69 caliber. .45 will do the trick and a 46" barrel should fit you imo. My Bess Musket has a 42" barrel as well and it handles well for me. I'm 6' 2" with a LOP of around 13 1/4". My longest is my .69 cal with a 51" Barrel. Got a Turkey with it last year and that fowler ( Which is the term you were looking for instead of shotgun) is 5 feet 8 inches overall length. I officially have a flintlock taller than my girlfriend lol. Anyway back to your questions. The 46" Barrel would do you well but remember what conditions your hunting in. Thickets and overgrowth play hell on longer rifles. Another thing to add is that a Southern Mountain Rifle or SMR is held differently than a Lancaster or New England Style rifle. They arent shouldered but instead are rested on the bicep of the shooter. As for a squirrel gun I depends on what you'd prefer. A smoothie gets them on the run or in the late season when they are running quick. A rifle like that. 32 or .36 gets them while they are setting still in early season or in general. Length is also a factor if you cant get good at swinging the longer rifles to bear quickly then a shorter rifle is better suited for you. As for Turkey I believe Maryland allows rifles ( not sure though) in that case a smoothbore is required. Most common is the 20ga or .62 cal then there is the 16 ga or .66 cal lastly there is the 12 gauge or .72 caliber ( my numbers might be slightly off). As far as powder goes GOEX is mostly off the table. Go to Powder Valley Inc and buy some Schützen FFFG and FFG powder about 5-10 pounds of it that will hold you over for all the target shooting you need as well as hunting. Ive never used the powder horn but want to. Definitely get a Possibles / Muzzleloading bag as it will help ease the process of all the loose goodies you need. Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Murphinator]

I've taken 2 deer with my Underhammer Percussion Rifle and they were at about 60 yards. .45 is definitely a good caliber most rifles from the "Golden Age" the 1770s and such were .45 caliber rifles. .45 consumes less lead if you Cas your own balls and less powder. I own three Brown Bess .75 calibers and a Double Barrel 10 gauge that suck down powder and make smoke clouds the size of a steam locomotive. My smallest is a .45 for deer ive never used a .40 caliber but I hear it does the same job. I have a .45, .50, .54, .69, 3 .75's, 10 gauge and a 12 gauge smoothbore. I've taken deer with all but the 10 gauge, 12 gauge and the .69 caliber. .45 will do the trick and a 46" barrel should fit you imo. My Bess Musket has a 42" barrel as well and it handles well for me. I'm 6' 2" with a LOP of around 13 1/4". My longest is my .69 cal with a 51" Barrel. Got a Turkey with it last year and that fowler ( Which is the term you were looking for instead of shotgun) is 5 feet 8 inches overall length. I officially have a flintlock taller than my girlfriend lol. Anyway back to your questions. The 46" Barrel would do you well but remember what conditions your hunting in. Thickets and overgrowth play hell on longer rifles. Another thing to add is that a Southern Mountain Rifle or SMR is held differently than a Lancaster or New England Style rifle. They arent shouldered but instead are rested on the bicep of the shooter. As for a squirrel gun I depends on what you'd prefer. A smoothie gets them on the run or in the late season when they are running quick. A rifle like that. 32 or .36 gets them while they are setting still in early season or in general. Length is also a factor if you cant get good at swinging the longer rifles to bear quickly then a shorter rifle is better suited for you. As for Turkey I believe Maryland allows rifles ( not sure though) in that case a smoothbore is required. Most common is the 20ga or .62 cal then there is the 16 ga or .66 cal lastly there is the 12 gauge or .72 caliber ( my numbers might be slightly off). As far as powder goes GOEX is mostly off the table. Go to Powder Valley Inc and buy some Schützen FFFG and FFG powder about 5-10 pounds of it that will hold you over for all the target shooting you need as well as hunting. Ive never used the powder horn but want to. Definitely get a Possibles / Muzzleloading bag as it will help ease the process of all the loose goodies you need. Hope this helps a bit.

Thanks for the information about your experience and about the powder. Secondly Underhammer ? That's a thing ! That looks like it shouldn't be real but it is. I looked up some pictures online and that I definitely a weird concept but I get the idea of the keeping the flash away.

 

[The Crisco Kid]

I have a 44" barrel and it's a pain to carry in the truck. 46" would have been ok for a man on foot or horse back but not in a Ford F150. Looks are cool but remember the old advice that form follows function.