New Caps: The latest Remington #11 & CCI Musket caps

[Trumpetman]

Has anyone tried the "new, hotter" Remington #11 percussion caps? I just bought some, and I will test them as soon as possible.
A few years ago I changed over to musket caps for my Hawken .50 Cal. rifle and my Jukar .45 Cal pistol. I felt that the previous generation of #11 caps did not ignite my charges consistently, maybe because I tend to use very light charges of 2f powder, and sometimes would even use Pyrodex :redface: back in those days. The OLD CCI musket caps I used for several years served very well for the light 2f charges I liked. For 3f charges or heavy hunting loads I found that the musket caps would tend to blow the hammer back in warm weather, but were tollerable in cold weather. They were just too hot, in general. Then enters CCI, with their new musket caps "for re-enactment." They were dumbed-down and lawyer proofed due to shrapnel injuries with their hotter OLD musket caps. The new CCI caps have been very consistent for me, but I have read numerous reports of failures to fire in some guns. Even though they still worked okay for my purposes, the prices suddenly went through the roof, and they became as scarce as hens' teeth in my local stores! I needed a solution.
Well, those days are over. My solution is a NEW T/C Hot Shot #11 nipple and a couple of tins of Reminton #11 caps for my Hawken. Yesterday I did the switch. And, while I was at it, I decided to switch to 3f Goex for all of my black powder guns (for now). If I had stayed with 2f Goex, I would have considered buying Remington MAGNUM #11 cap.
I plan to go out for a test run this morning to see if I can detect any difference between the watered down CCI musket caps and the NEW Remington #11's.
Pricing: At my local (Indianapolis) Gander Mountain sotres the Remington #10 and #11 caps are $4.99 per hundred. My only local source of Musket caps, on the other hand, is not only too far to go for watered-down CCI's; they also don't have any RWS caps at all. On top of that, the price of musket caps with the current shortage is nearly triple that of the Rem. #10 and #11 caps.
I am keeping the musket caps for my Jukar pistol until I run out of them. Then it will probably get a Hot Shot #11 nipple and switch to Remington #11 standards for it too.

 

[Drago]

I have been using them and have no problems, but I am using 70 grains of 3f.

 

[Trumpetman]

Smoothe operation of the Remington #11 caps :thumbsup: . I got good ignition every time with fffg Goex powder, a T/C .490" round ball, a .015" pillow ticking patch, spit lube, and a spit swab between shots. Here are the velocity results:

NEW LOADS USING FFFG GOEX WITH REMINGTON #11 PERCUSSION CAPS:
35 gr fffg Goex: 1214 fps (Squirrel Load)
40 gr fffg Goex: 1350 fps (Light Target)
50 gr fffg Goex: 1469 fps (Metal Targets)
70 gr fffg Goex: 1691 fps (Small Game)

For comparison, here are two loads from the same rifle, using 2f Goex powder.

PREVIOUS LOADS USING FFG GOEX WITH CCI MUSKET CAPS:

40 gr ffg Goex: 1078 fps
50 gr ffg Goex: 1200 fps
80 gr ffg Goex: 1480 fps
100 gr ffg Goex: 1739 fps

 

[buttonbuck]

I have been picking up remington and cci caps and "other necessary shooting supplies" as I see them on sale. I am wondering if there is any real difference between percussion caps when you are at the range? I will have to test the cci vs remington next time I go to the range. see if it effects where my bullet goes.

 

[dc7x64]

I picked up a tin of Winchester Magnum #11's the other day at Bass Pro. I didn't know Winchester was in the muzzleloading business. Anybody tried these out?

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm puzzled as to why a 'magnum' cap would be needed if real bp is being used. In my 40+ years of shooting and, at one time, selling ml products I have not found a really bad cap. At one time there were many off-brand caps from Italy and Spain that many did not like. But, I still have some and, guess what, they work. One other brand left a bit of foil on the nipple and tended to block them. Forget which brand that was. I gravitated to the Navy Arms brand as my all-around favorite and still have some (1970's price retail, 79 cents).
Unless you are using the hard to ignite fake powders I cannot see a need to use the 'magnum' stuff.

 

[Trumpetman]

I agree. The one person I know who buys magnum #11 caps does it because he uses substitute powder. He has had a lot of ftf's, and blames it on the primers. I've tried to convince him to try real black powder, but he's not interested, for whatever reason. From what I've seen at the range, the magnums do cut down on failures with Pyrodex. I'd rather just use real powder and be done with it.

 

[Trumpetman]

I picked up a tin of Winchester Magnum #11's the other day at Bass Pro. I didn't know Winchester was in the muzzleloading business. Anybody tried these out?

I was wondering the same thing. I'd like to get a range report on the Winchesters too. Let us know what you think of them. I found them at Wally World in the Indanapolis area, but I didn't want to be the guinea pig, especially with a meet coming up.

By the way, Wal-Mart in Brownsburg, Indiana, is carrying long guns again, after a long drought. That's just 12-15 minutes from the west side of Indy where I live.

 

[Prairieofthedog]

From what I hear Winchester caps are made by CCI.I also think if you use Blackpowder you do not need the the Magnum caps.But sometimes all you can find are Magnums,mostly because the retailer makes more profit on a tin of those as opposed to the reg.ones.And he carries the mags for the Pyro users.Save your money and buy the non-mags if you burn black.

 

[mooman76]

I have never found a need for magnum caps even with BP substitutes. They have all worked for me. Some I didn't care for for other reasons but they all have worked.

On a side not allot of Walmarts that dropped or didn't have guns seem to be bring them back. They got spanked pretty good a few years ago in CA for mismanaging guns.

 

[necchi]

Nice report Thanks.

I remember going through that "I need Musket Caps" phase.

Then I guess I learned that there are several after market nipples that are much better than the factory supplied nipp's and to be meticulous about cleaning the nipp's I do use and the fire channel.
Haven't had an urge to use Musket caps in over 15yrs and haven't had fail to fire issues that aren't related to fouled fire channels in that same same time.

Not trying to be rude but musket caps are for muskets. #11 caps are for Rilfes and Pistols and #10 are for Revolvers.

 

[Trumpetman]

I finally got the picture when I removed that little screw that everybody says you're not supposed to touch. There was hidden rust and stuff in there that I was too inexperienced to realize, and to know how to get out. Now that I know better, I'm doing a lot better with my cleaning technique. I don't see any need for the Mag. caps or musket caps either, now that I've been enlightened.

Also, when I have a long shooting session, and during competition, I push my round ball with a spit-patched jag. I can shoot shot after shot without cleaning in between -- up to about 18 or 20 shots so far. I do open the channel after 8 or 10 shots by removing the nipple (or that other "forbidden" screw) and running a pipe cleaner through just to be sure it's not moist or getting too much fouling built up. Part of that is insecurity. In time I hope to build more confidence.

 

[Zonie]

I'm sure your tongue was in your cheek when you posted but IMO, it is not really a "forbidden screw".

If it comes out easily I see nothing wrong with removing it to aid cleaning or, for pouring some powder into the flame channel in case you've dryballed a load. I've done it myself.

The thing is, a buggered up screw detracts from the appearance of a nice rifle and I've seen more than my share of these screws damaged by someone who was trying to get the screw out.

IMO, if it resists removal, just leave the thing alone, remove the nipple and clean the gun or pour your dryball removing powder load down thru the flame channel that's under it.

 

[Trumpetman]

My "tongue in cheek" comment was from another thread in which a couple of guys seemed upset that I removed that screw from my gun. It's all in good humor on my part. Thanks for the clarification.

I can't wait 'til the next shoot! I've got the right size nipples and caps on everthing I'll be shootin', the right patches, and sights that seem to be aligned according to my chosen load (40 grains 3f for the Hawken). I just need a couple of hours of technique practice to try to get my skills up to par with my equipment. As it stands I have no more excuses for poor performance. MY SKILL is the only variable I know of.

 

[Rick Son]

I'm in Ca. with two Waaa-Marts,i don't think they have guns again yet,but,i don't go in there,i don't have a hazmat suit,way to many zombies!!!

 

[necchi]

Have you learned the cleaning method, where you remove the barrel and submerge the breech in soapy water and do the plunger thing with a patched cleaning jag?

 

[Trumpetman]

That's the way I clean my barrel. I would heartily recommend it. Easy and thorough.

Unfortunately, whoever owned this particular Hawken many years ago evidently didn't know that method. Mine was manufactured in about 1973. I don't know how many years it sat around in a pawn shop before my brother and I got ahold of it. I had to find a way to get into it and scrape, jab, and scrunch until I got all the crunchies out. No wonder I had ignition problems. After I finally got it cleansed throughout, it's a snap to wash.

It took me some time to realize that a hotter flame may SEEM like a solution, but the need for that hot flame may just be a symptom of an obstruction, or sludge or rust, or some other problem. In my case I had addressed the symptom by converting to musket caps, when the real problem was inadequate cleaning. It feels good to have my Hawken operating the way it's supposed to, with #11 caps and consistent ignition (without a virtual 'blowtorch' at the breech).

 

[eugenenine]

I bought those CCI #11 magnum, didn't expect them to be louder than the rest of the shot
I don't believe the breach is removable on mine, unless it rusted solid many years ago, it doesn't seem to budge. How do you suggest cleaning properly?

 

[eaglesnester]

I have only been shooten rock locks and capers for about 5 years now but my take on fail to fire in a cap lock is due to a wet nipple and channel to the main charge and has nothing to do with the brand or make of cap. Dry the channel with a pipe cleaner and add a bit of 4F holy black under the nipple and U should be good to go. If you have fail to fire after this I would look to conditions other than cap brand. I use CCI no11 caps in my Hawken 50 and 54 and have never ever had a problem with fail to fire unless it was my FAULT, and yes sloppy cleaning and crud bulid up can have a huge implication on fail to fire. My shooten buddy and I were out to the range last week with our Hawken"s cap locks. He had 5 fail to fires in a row. He was using Remington NO-11 caps. I have never seen this before. Well he brung his smoke pole back to the tail gate of the Ford and proceded to dry out his chamber and nipple chanel. Next go was a touch off with no more problomo. Moral of the story? Keep em clean, keep em dry. This is my story and I am sticken to it.

 

[dc7x64]

I must be A.D.D. or something! Just realized since I got back into muzzleloading and bought my T/C Hawken last year that I have not used any non-magnum caps at all! I didnt even realize the CCI caps I bought last year were "MAGNUMS"! Havent had a misfire yet! Im using real BP.