I’m getting a new Traditions Crockett tomorrow, is there anything special I should do to start shooting it? (Special way of cleaning, etc)
New Crockett
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I know some people have reduced the jag diameter because the cleaning patches get caught.
doubleset
50 Cal.
I did this on mine. The bore is VERY tight -- may be tighter than "normal" .32 cal. bores. I had fairly constant problems with fouling (using real black powder: Schuetzen 3F, .310 ball, and .015 patch) until I stumbled in a pretty random way on my lube of Simple Green and olive oil. Now, it basically doesn't foul. I also lapped the bore, but it may not need this.
I clean with water and Simple Green, and I take the barrel out to do this every time. But there are issues with this owing to the really crude job of inletting that Traditions did.
Some advice: If you take your lock out to clean it, then after you put it back in, be VERY careful to thoroughly test the gun at half cock and full cock to ensure that it functions correctly. The inletting on my is so crappy that I spent a LONG time fixing it so that I can get the lock out and then back in a position where it works like it should. Also, you might want to check the tightness of all the little screws that hold all the ramrod stuff on. Mine were loose. I advise using Loctite on them so you don't have to worry about it any longer.
I have more to say about this and was planning on doing a lengthy posting about my experiences over more than six months now. But I got most of the way through that and then got distracted by some needed tractor repairs (
). I'll try to finish that in the next few days and post it.I LOVE this gun. I think that everyone who has one loves it. But there are some quality issues with the inletting and assembly that I've been really unhappy with.
If you have ANY trouble with it, call Traditions and talk to one of their gunsmiths. They were quick and helpful.
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Will water and Simple Green take the factory grease out of the bore or do I need something stronger? Do you heat the cleaning mix or use it at room temperature? What proportions do you mix the lube and cleaner at?
doubleset
50 Cal.
So, in order:
I originally had a serious problem with the hammer face sucking the fired caps off the nipple. What seemed to cure that was (1) shortening the depth of the face and (2) also "polishing" the inside of it. I think it was the polishing that really helped the most. Beware of shortening the hammer face too much. Avoid it if possible. The only reason I did it was that I compared it to my Lyman GPR hammer, and the Crockett face was noticeably deeper. Now I rarely have a cap stick in the hammer.
I have a bunch of other little things I've done along the way and will include them in my more detailed account.
- I believe that I used orange degreaser in addition to the Simple Green to get everything out of bore originally. Then I did it again after I tried pre-lubed patches with Wonderlube (never again). You can also use a little WD-40 on a patch (or spritzed down the barrel) to do some extra deep cleaning if the mood moves you. But I'm not fanatic about the cleaning. After cleaning and drying, I lube the barrel with gun oil of one sort or another, but am about to switch to Barricade as a trial. For a while I used Ballistol, and still use it for the exterior; but I think for the bore, other things are probably better.
- To clean, I take a plastic bucket, pour a little (doesn't take much) Simple Green in it, then fill about half full (or even less) with hot water. I'm not sure the temperature makes any difference. You just need enough water so the bottom of the barrel up to above the nipple hole is covered. Remove the nipple, of course, and then just pump the barrel sitting in the bucket with a patch or two or three. Usually the second or third patch comes out looking clean.
Then dry patch(es). Then some alcohol and/or WD-40 to dry it out. I clean the nipple with similar Simple Green solution and then alcohol. I do this with a little plastic syringe (farm supply store) and a length of plastic tubing that fits the syringe on one end and the nipple on the other. Then flush it like I do the barrel.
Cleaning the patent breech is a pain. I've used two methods. One is to clean the patent breech by using a .20 or .17 cal. cotton mop on a Dewey .20 cal cleaning rod I have. I need to find/make an adapator of some sort so I can do this with my regular range rod instead of having to get out the additional Dewey rod, but haven't got to that yet. Alternatively, you can cut a Q-tip in half and then force-screw the shaft into the end of your range rod or ramrod, and use the tip to get down into the patent breech. But you need to be careful about this. I discovered (with my little Ebay cheap endoscope) that the so-called "cleanout screw" protruded into the patent breech -- and I didn't want any cleaning patch or whatever to get caught on that. So I shortened the screw until I could see it wasn't protruding into the channel any longer and locktited it in. I never remove it. No need to if you're flushing with the bucket and such. And it's not really intended for cleaning anyway. - In terms of the lube mix, I'm not very careful. It's mostly the Simple Green that does the trick in lubricating and breaking up the fouling. I'd use it by itself except I discovered that if I did that, then patches prelubed with it would dry out as I was shooting a match. So the olive oil is really just to prevent them drying out. I soak them in a little Simple Green that I've added olive oil to, squeeze them out, and then store in a plastic container. I make my own patches from ticking that I've been getting at Walmart. Cut it into strips and then squares using a rotary cutter. They aren't real pretty, but they sure work. about 3/4"x3/4".
I originally had a serious problem with the hammer face sucking the fired caps off the nipple. What seemed to cure that was (1) shortening the depth of the face and (2) also "polishing" the inside of it. I think it was the polishing that really helped the most. Beware of shortening the hammer face too much. Avoid it if possible. The only reason I did it was that I compared it to my Lyman GPR hammer, and the Crockett face was noticeably deeper. Now I rarely have a cap stick in the hammer.
I have a bunch of other little things I've done along the way and will include them in my more detailed account.
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You are going to like the Crockett. Not the best built rifle but they are seriously accurate. I had to turn down the 32 caliber jag a little. It is a tight bore and didn't want to mess with the rifling. My best load has been 20 grains of 3F, a .310 ball and a .015 patch lubed with Hoppe's 9 black powder lube. Keeps fouling to a minimum for me. I clean with just water and a couple drops of dish soap. (Water alone will do the job.) Cold or warm doesn't seem to make a difference.
Jeff
Jeff
doubleset
50 Cal.
This seems to be the most frequently cited load. Seems to work well for me at 25 yds. and 50 yds. I have not yet managed to spend the time on a 100 yd. range, but did take a few shots on one a while ago (from a bench/sand bag) and was amazed at how well the gun did, The .310 ball and 0.15 patch in my gun is not a "tight" load. I would call it "snug", but easy to seat. No exertion, forcing, pounding, etc. I see no reason to use a tighter one, at least at the moment.
So is the problem with the triggers not working because the lock cutouts don’t lining up with the trigger group? If so, is it necessary to enlarge the cut out the lock fits in?
doubleset
50 Cal.
I'm sorry, but this is going to be a bit lengthy out of necessity ...
My primary point in what follows is to discourage you from being tempted to adjust the lock according to the instructions in the Traditions manual, since the problem may be both simpler and more fundamental. And, as you'll see, performing any adjustments on the lock itself may well not succeed since those assume that the lock will always be in the same (and stable) position when you put the rifle together. But read on.
First, don't assume you're going to have the same sort of trouble I did. It may be that the inletting on mine was unusual. The problem was that because of excessive inletting, the lock didn't have much support around the edges. Also, because of how the barrel channel and ramrod channel are cut, if you tighten the lock screws to where to where the lock is good and snug in the stock and won't loosen up, they squeeze the barrel channel onto the barrel. This also can affect how the lock sits in its inlet. This in turn can result in a part of the trigger mechanism rubbing on wood into which it's been inserted. The result can be a failure to hold half cock, or (worse) a tendency to accidental discharges at full cock. As I say, don't assume you'll encounter this problem. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
The problem isn't so much (or so simple as) enlarging the cutout the lock is in. A big part of the problem is that (on my rifle) that cutout is so crudely done that it's too large, resulting in insufficient support for the lock when its screws are tightened to hold it in the stock. So the lock can cant -- sometimes visibly, but sometimes imperceptibly. And that can affect how the cocking works and how secure it is. The alignment between the trigger and the lock is quite sensitive.
If you take the lock and trigger mechanism out (which you may well NOT want to do), you'll see that the way in which Traditions has addressed the problem is to employ several small (e.g., #6 or #8) wood screws as shims to support the lock where it should correctly be supported by wood as part of the inletting. In fact, with the first problem I encountered, the Traditions gunsmith told me the simple fix was to back out one of those screws a bit, and that fixed it. He also suggested adding another screw of this sort, should I need that. So the way it works out is that what really provides the support to keep the lock level/square (and without shifting when you tighten it into the stock) is that it rests in part on stock wood (where this is available) and partly on the heads of these screws (where it isn't, and since the screws can easily be adjusted for depth). It's ugly, but it works. And you don't see it when everything is together.
At one point when I was going nuts in trying to fix things so I could actually tighten the lock into the stock so it wouldn't loosen up -- but prevent the lock from malfunctioning because of the result of shifting/binding -- I thought seriously for a few moments of just filling in the Traditions inletting and starting over. But I really just wanted to make it both shootable and cleanable in a reliable way -- and not rebuild the stock. So after making one attempt with partially epoxy-bedding the trigger mechanism (which ultimately didn't succeed), I capitulated and just added another wood screw. But I feel kind of dirty for doing that. However, now the lock is rock solid, and I can take it out and put it back in with complete reliability. I just try not to look at the shims and screws I have in it.
I also did a little chisel work and glued a hardwood block into the rear of the barrel channel (where there had been no need to remove wood) in order to prevent the channel from being squeezed closed when the lock is tightened in. This seems to mostly work.
Now it's very likely that someone will shortly make a posting here that says in part "You get what you pay for." Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get more than what you pay for, and sometimes you get less. My feeling is that when it comes to the Crockett rifle there is a little bit of both going on. My irritation is simply that I believe that they could have done a significantly better job on the inletting while still using the machining inletting techniques they did and not incurring any more expense. But that's just my impression and view.
My primary point in what follows is to discourage you from being tempted to adjust the lock according to the instructions in the Traditions manual, since the problem may be both simpler and more fundamental. And, as you'll see, performing any adjustments on the lock itself may well not succeed since those assume that the lock will always be in the same (and stable) position when you put the rifle together. But read on.
First, don't assume you're going to have the same sort of trouble I did. It may be that the inletting on mine was unusual. The problem was that because of excessive inletting, the lock didn't have much support around the edges. Also, because of how the barrel channel and ramrod channel are cut, if you tighten the lock screws to where to where the lock is good and snug in the stock and won't loosen up, they squeeze the barrel channel onto the barrel. This also can affect how the lock sits in its inlet. This in turn can result in a part of the trigger mechanism rubbing on wood into which it's been inserted. The result can be a failure to hold half cock, or (worse) a tendency to accidental discharges at full cock. As I say, don't assume you'll encounter this problem. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
The problem isn't so much (or so simple as) enlarging the cutout the lock is in. A big part of the problem is that (on my rifle) that cutout is so crudely done that it's too large, resulting in insufficient support for the lock when its screws are tightened to hold it in the stock. So the lock can cant -- sometimes visibly, but sometimes imperceptibly. And that can affect how the cocking works and how secure it is. The alignment between the trigger and the lock is quite sensitive.
If you take the lock and trigger mechanism out (which you may well NOT want to do), you'll see that the way in which Traditions has addressed the problem is to employ several small (e.g., #6 or #8) wood screws as shims to support the lock where it should correctly be supported by wood as part of the inletting. In fact, with the first problem I encountered, the Traditions gunsmith told me the simple fix was to back out one of those screws a bit, and that fixed it. He also suggested adding another screw of this sort, should I need that. So the way it works out is that what really provides the support to keep the lock level/square (and without shifting when you tighten it into the stock) is that it rests in part on stock wood (where this is available) and partly on the heads of these screws (where it isn't, and since the screws can easily be adjusted for depth). It's ugly, but it works. And you don't see it when everything is together.
At one point when I was going nuts in trying to fix things so I could actually tighten the lock into the stock so it wouldn't loosen up -- but prevent the lock from malfunctioning because of the result of shifting/binding -- I thought seriously for a few moments of just filling in the Traditions inletting and starting over. But I really just wanted to make it both shootable and cleanable in a reliable way -- and not rebuild the stock. So after making one attempt with partially epoxy-bedding the trigger mechanism (which ultimately didn't succeed), I capitulated and just added another wood screw. But I feel kind of dirty for doing that. However, now the lock is rock solid, and I can take it out and put it back in with complete reliability. I just try not to look at the shims and screws I have in it.
I also did a little chisel work and glued a hardwood block into the rear of the barrel channel (where there had been no need to remove wood) in order to prevent the channel from being squeezed closed when the lock is tightened in. This seems to mostly work.
Now it's very likely that someone will shortly make a posting here that says in part "You get what you pay for." Sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get more than what you pay for, and sometimes you get less. My feeling is that when it comes to the Crockett rifle there is a little bit of both going on. My irritation is simply that I believe that they could have done a significantly better job on the inletting while still using the machining inletting techniques they did and not incurring any more expense. But that's just my impression and view.
My Crockett shot fine out of the box but it sure wasn't right. The barrel was inleted too deep so the drum bore on the lock. I had to loosen the tang screw to get the lock out. The ramrod retaining spring was bearing hard enough on the barrel to wear the bluing off. I guess I should glass bed the barrel but I did a temporary fix by shimming under the tang and inletting the spring a little deeper. Mine doesn't have the wood screws under the lock plate. None of this was visable when I examined the assembled rifle at the shop. After this whining, I have to say that the gun shoots great and I really like it. It's cheap to shoot and doesn't beat up my shoulder.
doubleset
50 Cal.
I put a couple of short pads of epoxy under the barrel and one under the tang -- just because I didn't quite like how it looked, and because the tang wasn't bottoming out when the barrel was well fit in the channel (with the epoxy pads). I don't like seeing stuff bend or shift when I'm tightening stock screws on a barrel or action.
Mine was a kit that I put together. I didn’t have the problems others describe but did have a little trouble with the ram rod retaining “spring”’in the stock. Had to add a little material so the stew could get some purchase and now it’s fine. I’m still playing with loads but mine seems to like .315 balls and 7/1 dry patches. My jag is an extended one from TOW and it works fine without adjustments. I clean crud out of the barrel with alcohol. Every so often I give it a cleaningbwith the bucket method with just hot water. Works fine so far. You’ll enjoy it.
hanshi
Cannon
My Crockett came nicely assembled but with not necessarily primo fitting. Still there was nothing remotely sloppy about it. I did nothing but clean it and started shooting. I used a .311" ball (can't remember anything about the patches) and best accuracy was with 30 grains of 3F, although 20 grains did about the same. I used spit or Hoppes for patch lube and the prb seated without protest. Accuracy was incredible with sub 1" groups beyond 40 yards. I loved it and still miss it. It was a most delightful little rifle. I started off using the factory wood rod for loading but eventually made a non-breakable rod and started using that. Traditions had the right idea with this one.
doubleset
50 Cal.
How long ago did you get that rifle? I got mine from Midway at the end of Sept. in 2021. I wonder if it may have suffered from being made during the Covid scourge (which hit parts of Europe particularly hard).
I picked up my Crockett today I am on a trip, and called ahead to reserve the Crockett. I purchased it from Kenockee Trading Post.
There were two, I picked the one where the hammer centered on the nipple the best.
The owner took the lock out, and all looked good, no screws. The lock went back in tightly. The triggers still worked. He also adjusted the triggers for a nice light pull
Back at the motel the only thing I can find wrong is the end ramrod thimble is a little loose.
I am not carrying any tools so I’m waiting to get back home to fit that.
I love the gun so far!
There were two, I picked the one where the hammer centered on the nipple the best.
The owner took the lock out, and all looked good, no screws. The lock went back in tightly. The triggers still worked. He also adjusted the triggers for a nice light pull
Back at the motel the only thing I can find wrong is the end ramrod thimble is a little loose.
I am not carrying any tools so I’m waiting to get back home to fit that.
I love the gun so far!
doubleset
50 Cal.
Good to have that kind of service. I put blue locktite on all those thimble screws and on the screws holding the rail to the barrel. They're all pretty short, and I had some loosen up after I'd tightened them and without Loctite.
Another mod I made was to replace the tang screw with a hex drive flathead machine screw. Since I take it apart for cleaning all the time, I didn't want to live with that slotted (and fairly soft steel) screw that was in it. Unfortunately, all I could get was a stainless screw, and I had to turn the head diameter down a bit on it. I'm keeping my eye out for a black oxide screw, but I don't care much about that sort of appearance issue.
I did not know that a regular nipple wrench was too big for the Crockett. The owner at Kenockee, modified a wrench to fit the Crockett for me. Great service and a fountain of information about black powder.
Good ideas about the epoxy pads and the hex head tang screw. Thanks
doubleset
50 Cal.
Oh, sorry I forgot to mention that. It's a bit of a pain. It's actually too tight only on one side, but that's enough. I just filed down two opposing sides of my Traditions (I think) wrench. The alternative would be to remove a little of the metal where the nipple fits in itself. But I preferred to leave that as it was since it's not overly thick. Here, again, is another odd design/fabrication flaw. It doesn't have to be that way. Just from an engineering and product development perspective, it's just not possible to understand how something like that got into production.
Youtube has a lot of videos on this
