New flintlock

[bdarin]

Been thinking about gettin myself a flintlock, but first a few questions for all you wizened sages of musketry out there:
:master:The pan charge....does it have to be FFFg or will FFg (Pyrodex RS) work just as well in the pan? Will it work as is, or should I grind some finer in a wooden mortar/pestle? Or does every flinter carry 2 powder flasks around? I'm looking to get a .50 cal, will be using Pyrodex RS. TIA. ::

 

[Rebel]

Well first off, Pyrodex in any grade won't work in a flintlock, PERIOD. You may get it to ignite occasionally, but only if you get real lucky, or if you put about 10-15 grs. of real BP in before it. As for pan priming, you can use 3f for priming the pan. It may not be quite as fast as 4f, but the difference isn't noticeable. In my .50 and .54 cal. flinters i used 3f in both the barrel and the pan. Also in the .62 cal. smoothbore flinter i had.

 

[musketman]

bdarin:

First off, Pyrodex and 777 doesn't lend themselves well to flintlock usage, black powder seems to be the better choice...

I'm not saying it can't be used, but expect more misfires due to the higher flash point for Pyrodex...

Now, I have used FFg, FFFg and FFFFg in the pan...
FFFFg will draw moisture from the air the fastest, could pose a problem in some flinters...

Using the same horn for both main and prime is an idea that goes way back, it'll also less items to carry afield...

Many members do this, I sometimes do myself...

Now I know there has even been those that use both black powder and Pyrodex in the barrel together, they dump some FFFFg in the breech first (10 grains or so) then the Pyrodex charge (less the 10 grains of FFFFg)...

The theory was that the priming powder would catch first and then set off the remaining Pyrodex charge...

 

[Packdog]

Pyrodex is a synthetic powder and has a higher flash point than black powder. It is more difficult to ignite from the flash of the pan. This is why Wally World can sell the stuff on the shelves but you can't BP.

I use one horn for both loading and priming the pan. 3F works fine for me in the pan. As Musketman said 3F draws less moisture. I big deal in hunting situations.

Packdog

 

[roundball]

FFFFg is the fastest of those mentioned which is why it's made for a priming powder in the first place.
I use Goex FFFFg for priming year round, and during all hunting seasons from October through January...never have any problems with FFFFg in the pan...just dump it and reprime every hour...takes 10 seconds and costs less than a penney.
One of the handiest items I use is a "pan primer"...several on the market but essentially it's a small brass tube about the size of a fat ball point pen, holds 90grns FFFFg, and has a spring loaded plunger dispenser on one end that dispenses 2-3 grains of priming powder each time, $10 bucks, worth it's weight in gold...fits in a shirt pocket.

I use FFFg as the main charge in .45, .50, and .54 calibers;
I use FFg as the main charge in the .58 & 62cals + .12ga;

Enjoy!

 

I have found the best place for Pyrodex is on the store shelf. Go get some powder you will not be sorry.
As far as for the pan I use FFFF or ground down FFF only. This is my preference and many use FFF in the pan, for me the FFFF is more consistent and I have never had problems with it even while hunting in the snow here in the west.

For my flash powder I have a matched horn. This is this horn carries 80 shots of pan powder "there about using the TAR rule" and I carry it right above my main horn which also carries Approx 80 charges at 80 grains per.

so here is what i have
.410/45 smooth bore 45 grains of FFF
54 cal rifle 80 grains of FFF and FFFF in the pan
50 cal pistol 30 grains of FFF and FFFF in the pan
62 cal fowler 70 grains of FF and FFFF in the pan

 

[bdarin]

Interesting....didn't know that about Pyrodex. I been looking for an excuse to order some real BP online, looks like now I got one. Figure I'll get FFF and use it for both, unless the gun prefers I grind up the 3F into 4F for the pan. Guess we'll have to see on that. :RO:

 

[Huntinfool]

There ya go now your on the right track FFFg will do fine in both applications. I personally use FFFFg in the pan most of the time but have used FFFg. Stick with the real BP for a flintlock.

I also use and love Swiss Powder it's a little more but it's also a little more refined. It cleans up much easier than any other and it seems to weigh more per volume also making it burn about 20 % hotter or better.

I get real good results out 65 grs. of FFFg Swiss in my .50 cal longrifle. Haven't been able to retreive a ball yet even though I shot one deer at 75 yards slightly quartering towards me. The entrance was in the shoulder angling through and out the flank!

:results:

Someone told me that per volume measure ya get darn near 20 % more weight. Haven't check it myself but I know it takes less to achieve the same effect.

YMH&OS
Chuck Goodall
The Original Huntin' Fool
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe

 

[roundball]

Interesting....didn't know that about Pyrodex. I been looking for an excuse to order some real BP online, looks like now I got one. Figure I'll get FFF and use it for both, unless the gun prefers I grind up the 3F into 4F for the pan. Guess we'll have to see on that. :RO:

FYI, Goex distributor J&J Pyrotechnics in Moscow PA has outstanding delivered prices by the case and they'll mix cans of different granulations in the same case of 25 cans, $9/can delivered.

However, starting out you may not want to go to the extreme of buying $227 worth of powder just yet, so there are a couple of places that sell 5 can minimums if you can't find it locally.

Graf & Sons in Missouri is one...their delivered cost per can will be much higher of course with shipping and hazmat fees only apportioned across a few cans but your overall outlay will be less to start with...when I got started, I ordered 1 can of 4F and 5 cans 3F...buy Goex by the case since then

 

[Birddog6]

I would check in the area for soome REAL BP & see if you can buy some locally before a would buy a case. YOu may find it closer than ya think... In a 50 cal I would use 3F Goex, Scheutzen or Swiss, but a word of caution with the Swiss, it is aprox 20 more potent than the others, so ya want to be careful not to overload or erode the barrel with large charges.

As for the pan.. The ignition timing between the 3F and 4F is in the Hundredths of a second & is not noticable by a person, tho some think they can tell a dif. Lock manufacturers have tested this with slow motion cameras many times & proven this. Just buy 3F & use it in the pan & for the main charge & all will be fine if it ia Goex, Scheutzen or Swiss. I do know that a case of Elephant I had was VERY slow to ignite & I hd a 1-2 second delay in ignition with it & IMHO, but made good lawn fertilizer....

Personally, I never shoot a BP substitute, I shoot the real thing......

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Skinning Knives

 

[shmrck1]

to all,
i've read that you can grind down 2f,3f or whatever to pan powder. right or wrong???????????
thanks
snake-eyes :: :thumbsup:

 

[musketman]

to all,
i've read that you can grind down 2f,3f or whatever to pan powder. right or wrong???????????

You can, as long as you grind it with a non-sparking grinder...

Also, work with small amounts at a time, it's better to scortch your fingers than to blow them off your hands, should it ignite while you are grinding...

 

[Leonredbeard]

Snake eyes,
Back in 1978 (yes I know it seems like a century ago) when I was getting started shooting flinters, I used to grind 2fg for the pan. It worked, I did it in small amounts, I mean tiny amounts, so as not to have a big flash or bang if it ignited. I found that it was inconsistant in ignition because I never got it all ground the same. The small pieces were actually fine as talcum with bigger kernals. The bigger ones would be catapulted into my face while still burning! :shocking: So I tried just using 3fg in barrel and pan. Finally I decided to spring for 4fg and have been happy since. Maybe I am strange, but I can tell the diference in igniton between 3fg and 4fg in the pan. :blah: Sometime in the last decade here I made a really nice miniature horn for the priming. It was a good excuse to build another toy and carry another neat item in my shooting pouch. :winking: You can't carry enough neat looking junk! :crackup:
God bless.
volatpluvia

 

[RussB]

Volatpluvia....I'm on your side with the priming. FFFFg seems better than anything else I've played with. And, the part about "more toys"....Well, of course! I've even read that "he who dies with the most...wins"! It's only natural that we all want to be winners, right? I don't think any of us are looking forward to the day that decision will be made, but it's still fun playing the game.
Russ

 

The trouble with ground-donw larger kernals of powder, is the absense of the graphite coating. The coating it so the granuals of powder will pour easily, roll against each other and not cake together, which is what happens with ground powder when it gots to a smaller oriface, like the horn's tip, or primer device's nose.
: It will work, but do use a CERAMIC or GLASS prestle and mortor, not a 15" pepper grinder like my bro did- HAHAHAHAHA!- Actually, it isn't funny, as the steel grinding wheels 'could' have ignited the powder, and the resulting grenade would have killed him - lucky for him, he changed methods by buying 4F. - IT's the least you should do.

 

If you cant get FFFF and must grind your own, try about 50 to 80 grains at a time. I have in a pinch used a plastic film canister

 

Long years ago, (as in the early 70's), when finding FFFFg around my neck of the woods was like me trying to find morel mushrooms, I crushed, or ground down, FFg and FFFg into what amounted to "powdered" black powder and had excellent results. It did draw moisture vehemently but worked very well. I did use a glass "mortar and pestle" and never experienced the first problem.....glass don't spark (I know these things, I'm a Licensed Master Electrician...hehehe). Having this experience I can see how it would be possible to have less than satisfactory results if one didn't pay close attention to the grinding process and ended up with granules that were much different in size. As with most things it's attention to detail.

Perhaps I'm nuts also because I beleive I can tell the difference between FFFg and FFFFg for priming. It is an indisputible fact that either will work but I prefer FFFFg. As it is with all things in life you do what you can with what you have.

Vic

Vic

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't have a "rule-of-thumb", but I find I can get away with FFg as both main charge and prime on Musket sized locks and large (7/8" wide flints & up) Chambers locks. Whether you can get away with it on a .50 cal. will depend on the lock geometry, quality of the frizzen and your keeping the flint knapped. It's worth a try.

 

[bdarin]

Well, no matter. I finally bit the bulle...er, ball, as it were, and ordered the .50 Hawken St. Louis kit. 29" barrel, 1:48 twist. Finishing the kit will give me time to send off for some powder. Called the Buffalo Gun Center, they said nobody in NY state carries real BP cuz of too many regs. Maybe take a ride to PA soon, buy it there. Anyway, I eagerly await my flinter kit. Hope it's as accurate as my cap lock Hawken Mountain gun. :RO: :thumbsup: eace:

 

[Stumpkiller]

they said nobody in NY state carries real BP cuz of too many regs.

From what I can tell that is true. I ended up ordering from www.powderinc.com after months of driving and calling around. You might want to check around with any shooting clubs in your area to see if a bunch of guys are going in to split a whole case - much cheaper per pound to buy it that way.

Now, I find most places are weedling out of carrying percussion caps (flint - fergeddaboudit. "No one uses those things. Here's some old T/C flints cut from sidewalk slates in the 70's we've had in the back room gathering dust.")