new revolver, need help getting started

[duke21]

guys, i posted some time ago about a Lyman 36 cal remy style revolver i was considering. i couldnt take it anymore and went and bought her a couple days ago. it is a lyman 36cal new model[url] navy.made[/url] in italy. has some sort of sheild insignia with a cirled star above it, next to that is the capital letters PN with a circled star above it as well. honestly, i dont believe the gun has been fired. bluing is exceptionals with just handling marks. the cylinder has a scratch were the bolt has dragged a bit. other than that like new. just now had a chance to get it out to inspect it. this is my first muzzle revolver, so i thought i would clean and lube before firing. the cylinder pin is so tight that i have to start it out with a nylon punch for the first 1/8" of movement or so. then it slides out easily. when replacing , the pin gets extremely tight when reentering the back part of the frame. i am thinking of sanding the whole out a bit or filing the pin just a smudge with a slight chamfer. function wise all else seems ok, but that hammer is really tight as well. it cocks and cliks on time and all, but is a pretty tight hammer. also, the hammer does not want to fall into the safety notches on the cylinder. alignment with the notches seems fine, but the notches dont appear quite wide enough. also the only thing i have right now to measure my powder is a brown plastic "charge Master" measure. i am not 100 percent sure about the markings and looking for advice on this as well. it is 3/4" inside diameter and the tic markings on the rod that is attached to the powder stop are about 3/32" apart. how are each of these increments comparable to grains of powder? i have goex FFFg superfine black powder and .375 hornaday round ball. looking to use for target plinking and possibly small game. where do i need to start on loads and such. any help on the above is appreciated. I hope i have not bought a dud. i really like the look of this gun. I am pretty much on my own on figuring this stuff out, not much in the way of black powder friends around here.

thanks and god bless,

duke21

 

[arquebus]

Do you have any powder scales? If so, you can throw a few charges from your measure & see what you get. If you don't, for a few extra bucks you can buy a decent brass BP measure....get one with the built in funnel top.
In my Pietta .36 Remington I use 20gns Goex 3Fg, with just enough CofW over the powder so as the ball seats just below the mouth of the chamber. I have been using Hornady .375" RBs with good results, but wasn't getting a full ring of lead left over when the balls were seated so have bought a Lee .380" RB mould & the bigger balls from it seem to be a better fit in my gun's chambers.....your gun may differ. I then use Wonder Lube smeared over the balls before shooting.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

go eazy filing anything - think it thru. you might get a caliper and measure the safety notches and the width of the hammer, may have to file down the hammer face a bit so it will engage the notches. a .30 carbine case holds 20 grs. 3F BP.

 

[duke21]

thanks guys,

i took a small countersink grinding stone and just barely lapped an chamfer on the hole the cylinder pin goes into. it is much better already. i am a fabricator so i know what being overly aggressive with repairs can do to a project. i looked over the hammer and cylinder notch situation some more. there is room for the hammer to go into the safety notches. The problem is the hammer is bumping into the cylinder before it gets into the notch fully. now i need to decide whether to remove a small corner of the hammer or to consider removing a little meat from below the safety notches so the hammer can fall in all the way. i am condifedent that either solution will fix it, its just deciding which course to take. the plastic powder measure i have has the funnel that slides over out of the way so you can fill the measure , then slide the funnel back over to fill the gun. it even has increments marked on it so you can tell how much you have. the only problem is there are no numbers marked on the increments. thats why i mentioned the bore of the measure so i could figure out the increments myself. if i knew a formula for grains vs. volume i could get this accomplished as well. the only empty cartridges i have around here are 22lr and 38spcl. I really did not have the money to get this gun , but dived in anyway. i really cannot afford anymore purchases right now, thats why i was trying to make do with what i have.

also, with my descriptin of this gun, can anyone tell me who made it and when.

sorry for all the confusion,

duke21

 

[Robert an saa fan]

Suggest you make a powder dipper out of a fired .38 Special case... just get a length of copper wire and wrap one end around the .38 case which holds about 20 or 22 grains of 3F black powder. Use a plastic tub like a clean margarine tub to dip powder out of.

One .38 Special case full per chamber will be a medium load. Using a filler on top like Cream of Wheat may improve accuracy... leave room to seat the ball/bullet and top off with lube like Crisco.

You could use a .22 LR case dipper for the Cream of Wheat. Remember that as long as you are using black powder or a black powder substitute you can not create a dangerous overload in a revolver.

After loading be very sure to cover powder container and set it safely away.

Revolvers throw fire sideways and up & down.

Very early Lyman cap & ball revolvers were made by Uberti and will have a Uberti mark(s) such as an octagon with a "U" in it or Uberti name possibly under barrel. Most Lyman's were made by Euroarms I think... memory on these a bit fuzzy.

Lyman revolvers started in early to mid-1970's... think they stopped importing them in mid to late 80's.

Have fun and be safe.

 

[sparsons]

I just got a similar rev. from my brother. Under side in front of the trigger guard is stamped D 1706 have any idea what it is? How does the cylinder come out or does it? I know nothing about this type handgun. :surrender: On the butt is a word that ends in Itlay but the first part I can't make out. The markings you talked about are the same here and the cylinder has etchings all the way around

 

[Blizzard of '93]

sounds like you are getting attenuated to the pistol, any gun shop should have some empty brass around, a .30 carbine case would be ideal and likely free. seems the .38 case would be a chamber full but can't recollect. the .30 carbine is what I used with my '51 navy and a felt wad. that was an acuurate load and deadly on stray cats. :applause:

 

[philo426]

I use an empty .357 shell as a powder measure for my .44 1860 Army works pretty well.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Duke has a .36, I had one years ago. If memory serves 22 grs. was max you could put a wad and ball over. My .44 Rem '58 uses more powder, I use a 7.62X39 (SKS-AK47) caseful for hunting and a .38 caseful for plinking.

 

[mykeal]

As for the manufacturer:

Check for the following somewhere on the barrel or frame:
The letters *** contained within a diamond shape - this is Fratelli Pietta's manufacturer's mark. Others are a capital letter U within an octagonal shape for Uberti, the letters DP in upper or lower case, either alone or within an oval shape for David Pedersoli, a palm tree in a circle for Palmetto, the letters AC in a circle for Armi Sport and the letters DGG with the two G's in a vertical line to the right of the D, either in a circle or alone for Armi San Paulo (Euroarms). Armi San Marco may also be stamped on the barrel for that manufacturer.

There should be two capital letters within a square box; these are date stamps and can be used to determine when the gun was made. AA means 1975, AB is 1976, etc. AG, AJ, AK, AO, AQ, AR, AW and AV are not used, so AZ is 1990. BA is 1991 and BE, BG, BJ, BK, BO, BQ, and BR are not used so BT is 2003. My list stops there, but I presume that BU is 2004, BZ is 2005 and CA is 2006.

Before 1975 Roman numerals were used: X for 1954, XI for 1955, etc. through XXVI for 1970. Then XX7 was 1971, XX8 for 1972, XX9 for 1973 and finally XXX for 1974.

The two marks you've already identified (the PN with a star above it and the shield with the same star insignia) are proof marks for the Italian proof testing houses.

Also, there is a bit of an issue with whether a .375 ball or a .380 ball is better in the .36 cal percussion pistols made in Italy. Some prefer .375 while others prefer .380. The best way to tell is to 1) look for a small ring of lead to be shaved off when seating the ball in the cylinder. If none, then try a larger ball. If it takes a large effort to seat the ball, try the smaller one. 2) shoot several and use the one that groups better. The bad news is that .380 balls are very difficult to find, so you may have to take up molding your own, not difficult task but not one that a new user wants to add to the list.

 

[duke21]

guys , thanks so much for your feedback on this. taking it home tonight from work to give her a good cleaning and thinking of seasoning the barrel and cylinder. i looked this gun over again and on the bottom of the barrel it is marked with the DGG and the right side of the frame near the trigger guard has the square with AC in it. so i guess mine is around 30 years old huh? Mykel your additional information helped me here. i plan on shooting her tommorrow and see what i have. still would like to get the hammer where it is not so hard to pull back. maybe it will break in with some shooting. just happen to have an old yard sale holster that fits pretty good. Too bad squirrel and rabbit season are over here, this would be a nice partner for my 32cal squirrel rifle. i may try my hand at surprising some crows with it tommorrow if it stops sleeting rain outside. do you guys recommend any spare parts for these and where would i get them, how about an owners book or ?

all help is much appreciated.

thank you and god bless,

duke21

support your local gun club and the NRA. the gun banners are going nuts again.

 

[duke21]

finally had a chance to take the lyman apart for a good cleaning last night. the gun really didnt appear to have been shot. still lots of blue inside the cylinder and on the cylinder pin and everywhere else you would expect some blue or paint rubbing off or thinning. unfortunately i dont have the correct nipple wrench so they stayed on, but everything else was given a good going over. filed a bit on the hammer to get it to fit in the notch better, but what really needed done was the safety notches needed deepend a bit. i have it now where the hammer will rest in the safety notch and not pop out when you try to hand rotate the cylinder as before. after i fire it a bit and make sure i dont need to adjust it a bit more, i will be touching up the bluing. the cylinder pin which was sticking bad, is getting easier to pull now and she looks real swell. with luck will get fired for the first time with me TODAY. I really cant wait!!

thanks and god bless,

duke21

 

[Blizzard of '93]

when you clean-up after your shooting session better squirt some WD down chamber and nipple pockets, they'll freeze up and be a b***h to remove later if you don't. good smoke! :v

 

[arquebus]

After you've done cleaning the gun, & are putting the nipples back in the cylinder, put a dab of anti-sieze on the threads. This will make it easier to remove the nipples in the future. I buy my anti-sieze from an Auto-supply store like Schucks, comes in a little tube.

I was at the range this afternoon with my Remington .36 trying a few different load combinations. I am using 20gns of Goex 3Fg topped off with .6cc (Lee scoop) of Malt-O-Meal & then either a Speer .375" swaged ball or a home cast .380" ball. With that combo the ball comes to a hair below the chamber mouths & leaves enough room for some Wonder Lube over the ball. I actually got better results with the swaged ball than the cast today which surprised me a little. Shooting one handed at 25yds I shot a 92/100 on the ISU (B-19) target which is as good as I've ever done with a BP revolver.

 

[duke21]

thanks for the feedback guys !! i was also concerned about the nipples getting stuck and thats why i needed that darned nipple wrench . i was wanting to put some anti sieze on the threads to help insure that they wont stick later. still new to the revolver end of things, my standard nipple wrench is way too big for the revolver, how do i know what to ask for, when i call around tommorrow looking for one? When i was at my local gander mountain about 10 days ago, they did not have a revolver nipple wrench seperate in a package. the only way i could get one that day was to buy a brass framed traditons 44 revolver which included the nipple wrench. out of about 8 local gun shops including GAnder mountain, nobody really has anything for muzzleloaders except for the selection of inlines at gandermountain and the seasonal guns at wally world. It really gets quite frustrating as i really prefer to buy locally when i can. any help is much appreciated.

thanks ,

duke21

 

[arcticap]

I read another forum's threads about the cheap quality of store bought revolver nipple wrenches, and some knowledgable folks posted about how to make improved home made versions for yourself.
Here's their ideas in their own words:

1. "use a modified 6mm deep well socket for a nipple wrench (ground it down so there are two ears). The steel of a socket is much better quality than any actual nipple wrench I've encountered."

2. "For my 1858 Remington I made a wrench from oil hardening drill rod."

3. "Most machine shops and some big box hardware stores have 3/8 inch drill rod. All you need is to be able to center punch it in the right place and drill it for the cone of the nipple. Then mill or file the notch, and drill for the handle.

You can harden it, but even unhardened drill rod seems harder than whatever they make those commercial nipple wrenches from."

4. "To harden a drillrod nipple wrench:
Heat about 3/4" of the buisness end to a cherry red and quench in oil.
(used motor oil is fine).
Polish this end bright.
Playing heat about halfway up on the wrench, observe the color of the business end. When it is about the color of light tea, STOP.
At this point you may dip the wrench in water to "stop" the draw.
Polish if you wish or leave as is."


Don't overtighten the nipples (only tighten with minimal torque) and lubricate the threads.

 

[Chrismico]

Nipple wrenches can be an area that needs some specific attention. Different guns quite often need different wrenches. The right wrench will work quite well and the wrong wrench can damage the nipple or the wrench or both. Try to get or make a wrench that fits well and works well with your gun. I have found that the universal type wrenches don't fit some guns well at all. I personally don't like the slot type wrench as it is easy to spread it when trying to remove a tight nipple. Sometimes it is the only one that will fit in the confined area around the nipple though. If you acquire more of these pistols you will probably end up owning a selection of nipple wrenches as well. For now, try to find or make the best fitting wrench you can that does not bind when turned and it will make your cleaning jobs much easier and enjoyable. It’s not always easy to get the right wrench for a gun, but you will be glad you made the effort when you do.

Good luck with the gun. I do wonder if the hammer not meeting the safety slot squarely might be a timing issue. Also before doing much filing I would want to shoot the gun some if possible as these guns do tend to loosen up after shooting. Some guns will loosen up to the point of sloppiness, so starting with fairly tight tolerances can be a good thing.

 

[duke21]

thanks guys for the feedback!!! i am going to try to make up a wrench today of some kind. i have a good selection of thicker steel in my welding shop , but really dont have much small stuff. i am sure i can fab something. guess i was looking for that walmart mentality of INSTANT GRATIFICATION. Guess i have to admit to being human also , and sometimes get impatient.

as far as the safety notch thing. the only time it will allow the hammer to fall into the notch is from the half-cocked position. at first i thought the sloted notches where not wide enough or the hammer was too wide. the notches were actually Just wide enough to allow the hammer to start into the notch. problem was that the notch was not deep enough to allow the hammer to actually grab the notch. I considered and actually did fill a little off of the hammer, but quickly ran out of material that i could remove withoug gettig into the area that strikes the cap. that is why i decided to deepen the cylinder notches just a bit. that part seems to be working a lot better now. also rubbing down the cylinder pin with steel wool seemed to have helped smooth the pin going back into the cylinder and frame easier. It is far from loose and i dont want loose, but at least now it can be pulled out and replaced without a lot of effort or getting the hammer and plastic punch out. i really dig these old guns, i have located a 31 pocket colt up the road from here used and may have to go look at it in a couple days. thanks guys for all your help and all constructive input is appreciated.

duke21