New to black powder: Have Investarms .50 Hawking...Best combination per manual/other advice?

[Orioin]

Hi folks,

Thanks for the forum. I have a few basic questions for an Investarms Hawkings reproduction .50 I bought a few years ago from a friend. I've read through the manual and watched a bit on YouTube and there seems to be some difference of opinion regarding optimal loading specs.

I have .495 round balls; the manual says .490. Can I use the .495 with .015 patches, or should I just get a box of new .490 balls and .018 patches?

I have a bottle of Pyrodex RS; one reference says to use 60 grains with a .490 round ball; the manual says 90 grains of G-O-FFG; the notation on the bottle states that RS is the FFG equivalent. The little brass measuring tube I have measures 68 mm at its shortest and extends out in 5 mm segments. I'm assuming 60 grains of Pyrodex RS would be appropriate, right? That would be the measuring tube at its shortest?

My buddy also wrecked the ramrod so I have what looks to be aluminum aftermarket one with just a threaded socket, no tools, so I could use some advice as to what's the best way to get a new one or tools. Standard cleaning brushes don't seem to fit it. It would be nice to get a wooden one but I don't have to have one especially, I just want to get the gun up and going.

Many thanks for any comments and I'm grateful for the opportunity to ask questions.

Orion

 

[Griz44Mag]

Ramrods can be bought complete and ready to use - per the original gun specs.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/567/1The load for your gun will be what the gun likes the most.
Every gun is going to be different, and needs to be "tuned" to the best load.
The barrel on that gun will very likely like the .490 balls,
Start at 60 grains and shoot three rounds.
Then 65 grains and repeat, then 70 grains, --- untill youi find the charge that the gun likes the most.
Try different patches too .010-.015-.018- etc - until you find the best powder - ball - patch combination that the likes the most.
It's there - you need to put in the time to find it.

 

[Rod Man]

Thinking the .495 ball will be pretty snug with a .015 or thicker patch. Not that it won't shoot it, but after 2 or 3 shots you are going to have a time with getting that ball on top of the powder. At least that is what I experienced with my Investarms Lyman.

RM

 

[Urban Coyote]

Powder - Pyrodex is a black powder substitute which is bulkier than black powder, RS Pyrodex is a substitute for FFG black powder that should be measured volume for volume and not by weight. The manual will give you a range of loads, min/max, so work within these parameters to find a load that provides best accuracy or fits your need, for hunting as example.

Patch/Ball Combination - Investment Arms (IA) recommends a .490 diameter ball for their .50 caliber guns. I've no experience with .50 IA guns but I own several others in this caliber. Depending on the gun I've used .490, .495 and .500 round balls. My factory guns are Thompson Center models. T/C recommends .490 diameter but I've shot .495 with no problem although in my experience .490 seem to shoot best for me. You might find you need to experiment a bit to find a path thickness that works with whatever diameter ball you use. Keep in mind loading at the bench with a tight combination can be different from trying to load in the field. For field use you may want a combination that offers accuracy but allows you to load easier.

Loading Rod - Replace the rifle rod with straight grain hickory of a composite rod with some backbone, some can be noodles. I'd advise to to get a one piece stainless steel range rod with a bore guide to use when at the range and/or for cleaning.

Hope this helps.

 

[bang]

Ball diameter can depend. Do you purchase or cast?
Casting can produce slight variations. Might be tad under or over. Depends on mold and lead temp.
Ball/ patch depends on best rifling engagement. My 50 will accept a .490/.020, deep riflings. It will also take a .495/.020 but with bit more start pressure. Both shoot the same so I stick with .490/.020 because it's easier to start and I feel it is less likely to cause damage to the patch.
Shallow riflings can shoot best with thin patch.
Deep riflings can shoot best with thicker patch.
Starting fit should not mean the combination had to be hammered to start. IMO a start fit requires a moderate palm strike to start then lighter to finish starter length and a smooth ram.
I use Pyrodex too. I found the RS gave periodic hesitation ignition. Switched to P and it went away.
All guns eat different. Some shoot good with a certain low load and a certain higher load. I would start at 1 grain per caliber and work up 5 grains at a time till either accuracy drops or max reached. Once accuracy drops back off 5. If Max is reached but accuracy maintains select comfort of shooting required.
If you intend to hunt swab between shots. Cold clean barrel first shot is important for hunting.
If just for target shoot groups of 3 per target. I shoot at least 3 groups of 3 to see if that load stays its accuracy with fouling. If it does then adjust load if needed. If it changes swab once the number of shots where it started to change occurs.

 

[towgunner11h]

Mine is about 43 years old, but it always did love the .490 ball and .018” patch combination. The load I worked up to was 90 grains of Goex FFg. Make sure patching is pure cotton- no synthetic fabric.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Mine is about 43 years old, but it always did love the .490 ball and .018” patch combination. The load I worked up to was 90 grains of Goex FFg. Make sure patching is pure cotton- no synthetic fabric.

If you run across linen patches, IMHO - are more consistent than cotton.

 

[towgunner11h]

If you run across linen patches, IMHO - are more consistent than cotton.

Yes- I was a bit too specific- should have said natural fabric or simply " no synthetics'.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Get some real black powder, and use the Davenport formula to find the most powder your barrel will burn with out wasting any.
Then work backwards until you get the smallest group.

Use NO oil based products in your barrel. If its in there now, take the barrel out of the stock and into he shower and pour the hottest water you can down the barrel and a rod and brush and clean everything out.
Buy Thompson Center 1000+ bore butter, Number 13 bore cleaner, and if you can find them their pre soaked patches. Everything will go down the barrel and back out again without problem.

 

[dave951]

I have an Investarms flintlock and it shoots just fine with 3f and 495 roundballs. Patch is .015 ticking.

Now as for a load, I always recommend starting a bit low and working upward in a ladder test. You also have to determine if it would benefit from wiping between shots. My current load is 65g 3f.

10 shot group at 50yd. There are a total of 4 flyers, 3 in pretty much one hole, not sure what caused that. I really, really hate the sights on this gun. They're buckhorn and bead and not the best thing for accurate shooting.

 

[FPDoc]

If you are working up a load etc. only change ONE thing at a time.. lube or patch thickness or powder charge or FFg vs FFFg or Holy Black vs substitute or ball diameter etc. Also short 6" to 9" or so strokes (hand near the muzzle) to seat the patch/ball combination full down onto the powder charge so you don't break a wooden rod and have the sharpy end go through your hand. I've been using a 3/8" dia brass rod for a range rod and my wooden rod as a wiping stick for a long time now. I drilled and tapped the end of the brass rod for accessories. Whatever you use for ball puller, patch worm etc, make SURE the threaded adapter part is cross pinned to a wooden or synthetic rod.
Finally: Always pour the powder in before the ball is rammed (Not as dumb a comment as you might at first think).

 

[Grenadier1758]

Vertical differences between impacts are usually due to differences in velocity. Perhaps slightly less powder, a build up of fouling, compression of the patched ball on the powder charge or a change in the weight between balls.

 

[Ponderosaman]

Track of the Wolf has excellent and varied supplies for muzzleloading. Don't be put off by their difficult to navigate website as I haven't found an online store with more variety and in stock supplies.

 

[dave951]

Vertical differences between impacts are usually due to differences in velocity. Perhaps slightly less powder, a build up of fouling, compression of the patched ball on the powder charge or a change in the weight between balls.

Also changes in light conditions. Wind will also affect impact at 100yds.

 

[Trot]

Not to beat a dead horse, but you will have to experiment and find what works for your gun. I have two of these, one is amazingly accurate with a .490 ball and .018 patch. This load is almost impossible to start in the other rifle, I have to use a .015 patch. I am sure a .495 would not work at all in the one with a tighter bore. I would get some .490 balls to start and a couple different patch thicknesses and go from there.

 

[Ames]

And remember. You have a Hawken replica. It came with a box.
A Hawking comes with a wheelchair.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[William Lincoln]

Investarms makes a quality rifle. All good adviice on the loads. Pay attention to
good cleaning after you are done shooting. I put a sling/carry strap on mine
and love it. Remember this site has a search feature. Most questions have been
covered there many times with sometimes unique ideas.

 

[deerstalkert]

i have 3 investarms Hawkens. 2 50's and a 54. they will be the last i dispose of.
all three have chrome barrels and clean up is a snap. or so i thought until i got a borescope. nice crud ring and rust ring at the breach. spent all day yesterday scrubbing barrels.
don't get a bore scope. ignorance is bliss!

 

[kelljp]

Replace the Pyrodex with FFF and follow Griz44Mag's advice. Just have to experiment with patch and ball diameter.
Each gun likes something different. If you really want to get an acuarate evauration you'd probably need to clean the barrel between shots. Both TOW or Gun Works sell ready built ramrods and jags or components to build your own I have TCs and InvestArms, the InvestArms seem to deeper rifling even though I'm a TC fan. Both are quality firearms.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Yes- I was a bit too specific- should have said natural fabric or simply " no synthetics'.

Actually - you did say natural fibers only. I only added the "linen" because it is one of my favorites.