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New to me Pedersoli 12 guage

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Attended Nation Gun Day in Louisville Kentucky last weekend, massive gun show. Most BP arms tend to be original military type. Saw this and made an impulse buy. I should start by saying I have never owned, or even fired a BP shotgun, so this is very new to me.
Near the breach the right barrel is marked:
Ditta Davide Pedersoli bardone V. I. Brescia Italy Made in Italy
Left barrel: Replica Arms Inc. Marietta Ohio. 12 guage, below that Black Powder Only.
I don’t see any date code or load data. No paperwork, so I don’t know if this is a current model or not. I would be interested in load data and where to buy cards,wads etc. ( and how to use them). I won’t be firing this until I have educated myself.
Any idea what this is worth, seems to be in great shape , little wear. I paid $425.

Any responses appreciated.
 

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Nice gun at a good price. The date code is likely 2 letters near the proof marks on the underside of the barrel or on the barrel flats. It might be there by the serial #, I just can't see for sure in your photo. If it weighs just under 6-pounds it would be a 1970's era up to maybe early 80's. A bit over 7-pounds and it's mid-80's to current production. Since Replica Arms with the OH address dissolved in the mid-late 70's your gun must be from before that.

I have several, one is indeed marked Replica Arms. There's lots of info on how to load it. In short, you'll need powder, cards and shot. Ideally, you should get a shotgun scoop/measurer. I like the adjustable kind - Lee makes an inexpensive plastic adjustable one. For starters, use the same scoop for powder and shot. Very common in the 12-gauge is to set the scoop to 7/8, 1 or 1 1/8 ounce. Put a level scoop of powder in, a card or 2 or 3, then the same heaping scoop full of shot, followed by another card. The nipples use #11 percussion caps. Those are somewhat hard to find right now, but you can buy musket cap nipples in 1/4x28 thread. The old nipples should come out with a nipple wrench or the right sized small box wrench. Musket caps are more widely available than #11 right now in the market.

Lot of folks us different arrangements of wadding. You can literally take a 1/4 sheet of newsprint, crumble it up and mash it down over the powder, then add shot and put another wad of paper over the shot. Sometimes the paper will smolder on the ground after firing so beware. A couple of large green leaves would also work. A 3/4- inch round punch will make usable wads that you can punch out of a milk carton, posterboard or similar material, or leather or cork.

Use the SEARCH function here, check out V.M. Starr on a web-search or ask more questions for advice and opinions.

You can buy components at Track of the Wolf, Powder Valley, Midway USA, and plenty of other sources. Circle Fly is brand of pre-made wads. There's "nitro cards", "over-powder" cards, "fibre wads" and "over-shot" cards. You might want to eventually experiment with some combination of them, but it you just buy over-shot cards, you can put 3 or 4 on the powder and 1 on the shot. That'll get you shooting and then if you want to pattern the gun and tweak things you can play around with components. I load two 13-gauge .125 cards over the powder and 1 thin over-shot card on the shot in my Replica Arms Pedersoli for the best patterns.

Shotguns are not too picky about powder, so any black powder, Pyrodex or Triple 7 and others will work, just make sure it is BLACK POWDER or a bona fide BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTE. The only brand that doesn't seem to work that good is Blackhorn 209, as it is made to be ignited by a primer, not a cap and it has a different formulation than the others.
 
Great beginner’s overview of shooting a smoothie. Try Sparkitoff’s suggestion to get started and then read a number of the threads in this section of the forum if you want to start experimenting with finding the best load combinations.
 
Nice gun at a good price. The date code is likely 2 letters near the proof marks on the underside of the barrel or on the barrel flats. It might be there by the serial #, I just can't see for sure in your photo. If it weighs just under 6-pounds it would be a 1970's era up to maybe early 80's. A bit over 7-pounds and it's mid-80's to current production. Since Replica Arms with the OH address dissolved in the mid-late 70's your gun must be from before that.

I have several, one is indeed marked Replica Arms. There's lots of info on how to load it. In short, you'll need powder, cards and shot. Ideally, you should get a shotgun scoop/measurer. I like the adjustable kind - Lee makes an inexpensive plastic adjustable one. For starters, use the same scoop for powder and shot. Very common in the 12-gauge is to set the scoop to 7/8, 1 or 1 1/8 ounce. Put a level scoop of powder in, a card or 2 or 3, then the same heaping scoop full of shot, followed by another card. The nipples use #11 percussion caps. Those are somewhat hard to find right now, but you can buy musket cap nipples in 1/4x28 thread. The old nipples should come out with a nipple wrench or the right sized small box wrench. Musket caps are more widely available than #11 right now in the market.

Lot of folks us different arrangements of wadding. You can literally take a 1/4 sheet of newsprint, crumble it up and mash it down over the powder, then add shot and put another wad of paper over the shot. Sometimes the paper will smolder on the ground after firing so beware. A couple of large green leaves would also work. A 3/4- inch round punch will make usable wads that you can punch out of a milk carton, posterboard or similar material, or leather or cork.

Use the SEARCH function here, check out V.M. Starr on a web-search or ask more questions for advice and opinions.

You can buy components at Track of the Wolf, Powder Valley, Midway USA, and plenty of other sources. Circle Fly is brand of pre-made wads. There's "nitro cards", "over-powder" cards, "fibre wads" and "over-shot" cards. You might want to eventually experiment with some combination of them, but it you just buy over-shot cards, you can put 3 or 4 on the powder and 1 on the shot. That'll get you shooting and then if you want to pattern the gun and tweak things you can play around with components. I load two 13-gauge .125 cards over the powder and 1 thin over-shot card on the shot in my Replica Arms Pedersoli for the best patterns.

Shotguns are not too picky about powder, so any black powder, Pyrodex or Triple 7 and others will work, just make sure it is BLACK POWDER or a bona fide BLACK POWDER SUBSTITUTE. The only brand that doesn't seem to work that good is Blackhorn 209, as it is made to be ignited by a primer, not a cap and it has a different formulation than the others.
Thank you for your very informative post.
So if I understand correctly, if I use overpowder cards I don’t need wadding?
Or does the card go over the wadding?
 
All the 3 digit and low 4 digit serial numbered Pedersoli doubles I have seen have been 1970s to late 1970s guns. The date code will be on the bottom of the barrels. Here is the secret decoder chart for date codes.
1709486415562.png
 
So if I understand correctly, if I use overpowder cards I don’t need wadding?
Right. As long as there's something between powder and shot that sort of makes a seal, and something over the shot to keep it from falling out the muzzle, you're good to go. The cheapest way is to use over-shot cards for everything. 1000 of them are around the same price as half that many "over powder" cards. 2 or 3 on powder, 1 on shot. Likewise, you can use a single over-powder or nitro card on the powder, or try 2 or 3 if you want, and put one over the shot. You could peel one in half and just use half over the shot too. One type of wad will get you shooting and produce a pattern you'd expect from a shotgun. If you then decide to change how the pattern is (more spread, less spread, better density, etc.) you can tinker with how many and what kind of wads and in what sequence to load them. If you're wing-shooting, rabbit hunting or squirrel hunting you probably don't need but one type and changing them won't make that much difference. Turkey hunting, waterfowl with heavy loads - there are techniques to tighten up patterns, etc.

I somehow lost my cards in the middle of a hunt, about 4 miles from the truck. I was into birds so I didn't want to pull the dog off and go all the way back. I found broad, pliable green leaves and crumbled them up to form over powder and shot "wads". I found a plastic wad from someone else. I cut the base off and used that for a over powder wad for one load and used the cup for another with leaves on shot. I fired 10 rounds that afternoon between the leaves and the two shots made with recycled plastic - and I knocked down birds just fine.
 
Lot of good information from Sparkitoff.

I am all but certain that is a 1970's production model because it has a though bolt at the front of the locks, and breech plugs. Those are delightful wingshooting guns. Probably just under 6 lbs (pretty light for waterfowl loads).

I use 68-70 grains of FFg and 7/8 to 1 1/16 ounce of 71/2 or 6 shot for upland birds. There is a VM Starr loading approach, and a Skychief load for tight patterns at the top of this forum. In addition to the do it yourself approach wads, nipples, and accessories are available from Track of the Wolf and from Dixie Gun Works. I have two of those guns and one uses 1/4 28 nipple threads, the other 6 mm, you can check the nipple threads at any hardware store. The bores in my guns mic at about .710 inches and they like 13 gauge wads. My experience was that cushion wads seem to blow a hole in the patterns. An over powder card or about 3-4 overshot cards under the shot (VM Starr) fixes that. I often use WAA SL plastic wads in that gun, although it's not old timey.

My one point of disagreement with Spark is that my attempts to use Pyrodex and Triple 7 were very frustrating. There was a significant lag time, and worse it was not a consistent lag time. Once I found real black powder, those issues completely went away.

Retail stores cannot put black powder on the shelf, so one has to ask for it. Cabelas and Bass Pro do carry it, but you won't see it. You can also buy it on line, although the hazmat shipping fee makes it impractical unless you buy 5 pounds or more. Powder Inc, Graff's, and Maine Powder House are sources.
 
I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to respond. As I said I have never had a muzzleloading shotgun before, so the detailed responses were greatly appreciated.
I will be ordering from TOW tomorrow.
 
Musket caps are a lot hotter! (I thought that I must be missing something.)
There’s a lot helpful guys hear that have a wealth of knowledge and they don’t mind us nuisances bothering them time to time so ask away partner .I do and have come from knowing nothing to being able to figure out how to shoot a flintlock smooth bore with there help so hats off to all of them .Walt
 
This is really helpful info here. Not to hijack the thread but I am in the same boat as the OP and was going to make a similar post. New to shotgun muzzleloaders.

I will soon have a 20 gauge Pedersoli Classic SxS that has a maple stock, I heard this might be an upgraded model? Unless it just refers to the stock itself.

Looked up it's proofmark and it's made in 1993. It's one of the 28" barrel models. The right barrel is cylinder bore and the left is modified but not 100% sure what that means.

I had no idea where to begin with muzzeloader shotguns but checked some videos and the posts in this thread helped too.

I have some 20gauge wads and cards I got a while back. But I don't have any shot, what are my options for 20g?

I would like to eventually hunt with this gun but for now would just like to get it shooting and patterning well at the range
 
This is really helpful info here. Not to hijack the thread but I am in the same boat as the OP and was going to make a similar post. New to shotgun muzzleloaders.

I will soon have a 20 gauge Pedersoli Classic SxS that has a maple stock, I heard this might be an upgraded model? Unless it just refers to the stock itself.

Looked up it's proofmark and it's made in 1993. It's one of the 28" barrel models. The right barrel is cylinder bore and the left is modified but not 100% sure what that means.

I had no idea where to begin with muzzeloader shotguns but checked some videos and the posts in this thread helped too.

I have some 20gauge wads and cards I got a while back. But I don't have any shot, what are my options for 20g?

I would like to eventually hunt with this gun but for now would just like to get it shooting and patterning well at the range
The right barrel has no choke the left is .
Choke is a means by which a pattern is tightened up somewhat but not always!

Commonly achieved via a constriction at the muzzle. Rarely more the .040" constriction which commonly is listed as full choke. Half that often called moderate choke or mod for short is around .020" constriction.

Use any lead shot but typically #7-#4 will get game.
Dump the wads and just use thin cards.
If you got nitro cards dump them too.
 
The right barrel has no choke the left is .
Choke is a means by which a pattern is tightened up somewhat but not always!

Commonly achieved via a constriction at the muzzle. Rarely more the .040" constriction which commonly is listed as full choke. Half that often called moderate choke or mod for short is around .020" constriction.

Use any lead shot but typically #7-#4 will get game.
Dump the wads and just use thin cards.
If you got nitro cards dump them too.
Thanks, that helps. I got the wads+cards for free from a friend, but I think they're actually over powder and over shot cards. I'll have to double check

So if the left is choked do I have to do anything different or anything to be aware of or will it just be a different pattern/spread?

And forgive my ignorance, I have never been into shotguns at all, but is #4 shot the same as #4 buck shot? Can I use 00 buck too?
Would #7 shot be considered bird shot? I have been looking into this but many different numbers/names for shot has me a bit confused

Where is a good place to buy shot and possibly some thin cards? Are the "thin cards" just the .025" over shot cards mentioned above?
TOTW has #4 buck but is out of 00 buck, but they do have .025" over shot cards though... Sounds like I should be good with #4 buck and the over shot cards from them then, but unless I missed something they don't have any birdshot or shot smaller than #4 I believe
 
Here’s some information that might be useful:

Powder measure setting to measure ounces of bird shot:

55 grain setting = 2 drams = 3/4 oz shot

62 grain setting = 2 1/4 drams = 7/8 oz shot

68 grain setting = 2 1/2 drams= 1 oz shot

75 grain setting = 2 3/4 drams = 1 1/8 oz shot

82 grain setting = 3 drams= 1 1/4 oz shot

90 grain setting = 3 1/4 drams = 1 3/8 oz shot

96 grain setting = 3 1/2 drams = 1 1/2 oz shot

102 grain setting = 3 3/4 drams = 1 5/8 oz shot

109 grain setting = 4 drams = 1 3/4 oz shot

116 grain setting = 4 1/4 drams = 1 7/8 oz shot

123 grain setting = 4 1/2 drams = 2 oz shot

130 grain setting = 4 3/4 drams = 2 1/8 oz shot

137 grain setting = 5 drams= 2 1/4 oz shot


Useful values:

1 grain = 0.037 drams

1 pound = 7000 grains

1 pound = 16 ounces

1 ounce = 437.5 grains

1 dram 27.344 grains

Density of lead = 11.34 grams/cc

1 gram = 15.4324 grains

1 inch = 2.54 cm

Volume of a sphere = 4/3 pi r^3

Volume x density = weight

IMG_6757.png
 
The choked barrel will not be pleasant to load with thick cards or wads.
Thin over shot card's curl past and get righted by the rammer.
Use anything else but wads or thick cards or you'll break the rammer.
 
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