Newbi Advice for a BP revolver

[John Mateycik]

Thinking of buying a BP revolver soon. Any advice on makes, models, steel frame, brass frame, powder, bullets, for a newbi. I don't want to empty my wallet, but don't want a clunker either.

 

[Many Klatch]

Steel frames are sturdier and can take bigger charges. Brass framed guns are cheaper. Both work fine if all you are doing is punching paper with moderate loads. My personal preference is the Remington's with their solid frames. Never could get into the idea of shooting a gun held together with a wedge.

Many Klatch

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'm just the opposite. Never liked the cramped feel of the Remington grip frame...always found the Colt grip style more comfortable and better shooting...to each his own. Other than that, the advise is the same, namely the brass frames are cheaper but can stretch from large charges and loosen up while the steel frames take the bump from recoil much better. In the end, the choicis yours!

 

[pargent]

+1 Some of the target models of the Remington are thicker in the frame webs then the std models but it would be foolish to think that they are stronger because they have a one piece frame .

 

[jaxenro]

What do you want to do with it? Target? Plinking? Historical reenact? Collect? How big are your hands? What other type of revolvers do you shoot?

To me price is the last consideration as the difference between a brass frame Pietta 1851 style and a Cimarron/Uberti 1851 is only $100 or so none of the Colts or Remmies will really break the bank. Colt styles come in multiple sizes from pocket models to Dragoons and Walkers but the 1851/61 Navy and 1860 Army seem to fit most hands really well. The new steel frame Pietta's are nice I prefer Uberti but that's just a personal preference (some like Ford some Chevy) but avoid the brass frames like everyone says

 

[FishDFly]

"What do you want to do with it? Target? Plinking? Historical reenact?", as pointed out, you have to decide what you are going to do with the pistol.

First do a search on the internet for "Black Powder Cap & Ball Reloading" by Gatefo in Utah and read it a couple of times.

Go to a place like Cabelas where you can handle Remington's and Colts to see what fits "your" hand the best. I don't like ordering guns, I need handle them to see what fits and what does not.

1. Steel frame
2. Ruger Old Army
3. Uberti or Cimarron, 1858 Remington Navy Model
4. Track of the Wolf Nipples, replace the
factory nipples
5. C&B Cylinder Loader from Powder, Inc.
6. Tedd Cash nipple wrench
7. Powder flask
8. 0 to 30 grain pistol measurer
9. 3F
10. Pistol stand, maybe someone will post a
picture of their's
11. Balls
12. Caps
13. Pistol cleaning rod

I am a line shooter watch what others on the line are shooting, especially the Master class. The nod goes to the Ruger Old Army for revolver matches and for "As Issue" the nod goes to Remington 1858 in 36, with Uberti being a favorite.

A C&B loading stand really makes loading much easier and puts less strain on the loading lever and parts when seating the ball.

A wooden pistol loading stand makes loading and cleaning the pistol much simpler. Also when not shooting the pistol it gives you a place to safely put it. Most pistol shooters all have one or more depending on the style of the pistol(s).

 

[Brian6396]

Warning, bp revolvers are a blast to shoot and very addictive. Once you shoot one you will want to buy more :thumbsup:

 

[rodwha]

If you choose a brass framed pistol you'll need to shoot only reduced loads of up to about 25 grns, which is plenty for target work, and likely about the most accurate (I read 18-28 grns tends to be the sweet spot).

Standard models have longer barrels (7.5" or more), but what you intend on doing with it may warrant something else.

The brand of powder will be important by your intentions. There are a few black powders (Swiss and Olde Eynsford, as well as the substitute black powder, Triple 7) that give higher velocities with the same volume, but aren't necessary if shooting paper. Swiss and Triple 7 command a higher price, but Olde Eynsford, made by Goex, is about $1 more per pound than regular Goex, and may actually be the better choice in that a reduced load will give similar performance to what another powder may give.

Unless a target model is had, or a Ruger Old Army, you'll most likely see a much better grouping when using round balls vs conicals (bullets). And they are generally much cheaper.

Send DD4lifeusmc a PM as he casts several projectiles at a very reasonable price, and can get lots of the accessories you'll need.

I've often read that many feel the Remington is a better starting gun.

The best bet is to go somewhere where you can handle a few to see what you actually prefer.

 

[cynthialee]

It doesn't matter which one you get, it will just be the first.
:haha:

I'd suggest a Pietta Colt clone. Something in .44 like an 1860 or a fantasy 1851 'Army'. (my fav is the 1851 'Army')

 

[FishDFly]

Grains shot, there is not generic sweet spot, each pistol is different especially when it comes to caliber size. I have a matched pair of 45 line pistols, one likes 20 grains/.010 and one likes 30 grains/.015. The trend in line pistols is now .32 and the least amount of powder the better.

I know of no one who buys pistols based on a particular brand of BP or substitute. If you check the powder being used the most it is, Goex. Pistol shooters are more interested in group size than velocity, Xs win.

Pistol shooting is 90% mental with proper training and 10% the equipment.

I read a lot about C&B pistols here and talked with lots of Master shooters. I have spent a lot of money on line pistols and have assembled 8 pistols which will go head to head on the line.
Behind those are backup pistols, early mistakes in quality.

Think I will go shoot.

Spend your money, it's yours to spend and your pistols to enjoy.

 

[bobthemotorcycle]

If you get a Colt clone 1851 in .44 cal you are going to always wish you had one in history correct .36 cal.

If you get a Colt clone 1860 in history correct .44 cal you are always going to say "cool, I like this but I want a revolver with an octagon barrel".

If you get a Colt clone 1861 in history correct .36 you will once again want the 1851 because it has an octagon barrel.

Just my opinion but I suggest you get a Colt or a Colt clone 1851 Navy in history correct .36 cal.

A brass frame revolver is ok to start with but once you get one you will always want a steel frame revolver. So I have the opinion to suggest a steel frame revolver to start with.

The gunfighters of the old west really liked the .36 cal better in my opinion. I have read quotes that state that a .36 cal will kill a man faster than the .44 cal. They say the .44 will tear them up more but the .36 cal is a straight to the center of the body killer.

I myself would start from the beginning of the colt line in order of introduction.

Aside from the Patterson, Walker, Dragoon's and many pocket pistols I would start with.......

1st. Colt 1851 Navy in history correct .36 cal
2nd. Colt 1860 Army in history correct .44 cal
3rd. Colt 1861 Navy in history correct .36 cal

After that if you still want a brass frame revolver get a brass frame 1861 Navy in history correct .36 cal and pretend it is a Confederate Griswold revolver.

They are all fun so just get what catches your eye when you are looking.

P.S. I myself like the Colt revolvers and do not care too much for the Remington revolvers. The Remington's to me look like it is overbuilt. No need for the top strap since the pressures are low. To me its like putting a roll cage in a mini van, just weird looking.

 

My personal favorites are the Colt Navy 1851 .36 caliber and the Remington "1858" revolver . 44 caliber. Steel framed. You can use Pyrodex just fine in it as well as true black powder. Though I prefer to cast my own minie bullets, the round ball is what most people use and can be made or bought cheaply. Any No. 10 percussion cap will do.

On those two revolvers, I prefer the 36 Navy. I am accurate out to 75 yards with it. Has a nice long sight radius and sleek balance. The first ever belt carry pistol.

The 58 Remington is very modern and very strong. A little less natural hammer reach, but if you choose to have spare cylinders, they may be speed reloaded like a modern revolver. Very ahead of its time.

I shot both guns, but I only thouroughly reviewed the Navy. Here is the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxT...ew-vl&list=PLfr6Ra0T0YhrJvJxEO6lqLzhCdOoCP0JD

 

[Dave Colborn]

Not to put the cart before the horse, but I wish I had put some thought into what I was going to do with my guns before I bought them as a couple suggested you do here. I had no idea what was available as far as competition (and fun) in muzzle loaders and black powder revolvers. I don't regret buying any gun I have bought, but I could have been better informed. Depending on what you buy, you may not be able to shoot some matches that are "as issued". Also, there are some winners as far as what really works well with the good shooters. If you think of shooting in terms of shooting a match, and find out what winners shoot, you will more than likely be happier with what you buy even if never getting further than plinking.

I think the .36 or .44 Remington new army is sound advice for a starter gun. I got one from cabelas in .44, I got the "target" model. Sights are very hard to adjust, although it's a good gun if you can get it adjusted to where you need to shoot. Had I gotten a .44 or .36 with non adjustable sights, I'd be better off for shooting "as issued". I'll probably get a Ruger Old Army at some point with target sights and an uberti Remington new army in .36 caliber. If you are target shooting, it is likely that you can get away with less powder with a smaller ball (if all other things are equal and you aren't shooting too far) and still get accuracy. I can shoot my .36 for about .12 cents a round, after buying lead, casting equipment and caps. My Remington is about .15 cents a round, the way I have it figured, as the powder charge and ball are both heavier.

I like my 1851 Navy by Uberti. It is a .36 and until today, I hadn't shot it much and didn't care for it's accuracy. Today I put 40 rounds through it, and filed the sights to get it on target a little better. I was impressed with the accuracy of the gun with 10 grains of powder (down from 15 grains) a .357 case full of corn meal and a .375 ball. Adjusting sights is slow for me, but I don't want to file off too much and have to buy a new hammer.

Dixie Gun Works is where I would buy from. My Uberti came from there a few years back, I think. I bought it second hand.

So much to buy. So little time.




Take a look at www.nmlra.org. Find some local shooters. Have fun.

I went to Friendship Indiana this year to see the National Championship Shoot. Wow!

 

[jaxenro]

I have 5 1862's and at the moment 1 1851 but have probably had close to 100 different ones through my hands. If you can either try a friends or go somewhere you can handle one and see what feels good. I tend to buy Cimarron Uberti's, I think they are a little nicer but it is subjective, Pietta sems to be much improved lately, but I seem to most often shoot an old ASM I have. I shoot in my backyard for fun so I don't really care about range rules, competition, and the rest. I prefer the 36 but that's just me. Loaded with 20 grains of triple-7 and a Kaido flat nose 140 grain bullet that ASM hits hard and is fairly accurate. Buffalo Arms has good prices on Cimarrons if you go that route. PM me if you want to discuss any of this been shooting them for 30 years now (although I'm not an expert my range doesn't hand out certificates)

 

[rodwha]

I am by no means very experienced as far as BP weapons and their use goes as I've only had my pistol about 2 years now. But I've garnished quite a bit of information, mostly from the experienced people on this forum.

"(I read 18-28 grns tends to be the sweet spot)"

This is what I've seen time and time again from those who shoot matches or for X's. And this is well within what a brass framed pistol can likely handle, again from people who have them.

I hadn't recommended any pistol by the powder he'd use, but mentioned the few energetic powders that would likely be necessary if shooting things other than targets, and mentioned also that those powders wouldn't be necessary if only shooting paper.

It seems to me that Swiss is the powder that's held in the highest esteem among match shooters. Many seem to use Goex due to the cost difference, not because it's superior, which is why I mentioned Olde Eynsford powder by Goex.

I'm a bit puzzled by your response...

 

[fort fireman]

I am no expert and can only speak of my experiences. My first Cap and Ball was a Pietta "confederate" 1851. It was an impulse buy at Bass pro with the started kit. It is a blast to shoot. The grip feels great in my hand. I then got an 1858 remington. Pietta from Cabelas. I really like this gun as well. It deffinately feels more 'robust" but the grip doesn't fit quite as well. It is very accurate with light loads and heavier loads. I just recently got an 1860 colt army( Pietta from Cabelas). So far I love it but I have not put any lead down range with it as of yet. the price was right and I kind of wish i would have gotten a pair of them.
Like others have said, plan on the first one but don't worry if it isn't completely right for you. There will be more to follow. i plan on a second 1860 then to be followed by a 51 in 36 cal. Then a 62, then another 60 to convert, then a well you get my point. :grin:

 

[Heelerau]

Mate,
reckon a steel framed Remington would be a good start, strong and reliable, not subject to jamming with spent caps. Guess if you have opportunity to heft one and see how it fits and feels in your hand. The Colt Navy is a lovely little pistol, points and shoot beautifully, mine gets jammed from time to time with spent caps, still working on sorting that out. If you do go for a Remington, do go steel framed as reports go seems the brass framed ones may not last. The Confederates only would have made them because materials were severely constrained, and I guess they only had to last a limited time.
Cap and balls are a big old bunch of fun, and a serious sidearm.

cheers and good luck

Heelerau

 

[crockett]

Well I'd think about a Colt Navy 1851 in a 36 caliber. The 36 uses a little less powder. I would get a steel frame. The gun will last and you will have a pc firearm. It was used during the Civil War and on the Western frontier so you can use with a lot of personas.
On the wedge. History and millions of rounds have established that the wedge is fine as far as strength. Colt had a top strap on some of his first revolvers (rifles- not pistols) but got rid off it. The good thing about the wedge is that you can remove the barrel very easily and clean up is a snap. The other thing on the Navy Colt is that the lockwork is almost identical to the Colt 1873 Peacemaker so if later on you want to get a cartridge six shooter- you will already know how the mechanism works.
If you ever think you might use the gun for hunting, then I'd probably switch over to the 1858 Remington Army in 44 caliber.