newbi kit Q.

[charcoleburner54]

I have put together Renagade kits from TC long ago so I was thinking of building a kit from Track of the wolf specifically the Jim Bridger Hawken. I was wondering if any of you guys have any experience or advise thanks

 

[necchi]

Start reading here.
The Bridger kit is about the most complicated build out there if your interested in getting it right.

 

[MSW]

By way of disclaimer, I have never built a kit from Thompson Center, although I have one of their rifles and several barrels which fit into it (in specific, a .50, a .54, and a 20 gauge smooth). T/C made a great rifle, and most of us have owned one, will own one, or are trying to be snobby and have one but won't admit to it. I, too, was in your spot some years ago. I looked at a 'kit' (also from Track of the Wolf) and thought - "this is simple -I can do this in a few weekends and it will be a really cool Christmas present." So, in about June or July, the 'kit' arrived.

Now why, he asks, does this crabby old fart put the word kit in quotes?

'cause it's not really a 'kit' in the accepted sense of the word. Think more along the lines of a set of parts.

You will need to finish each of the bits of furniture (trigger guard, butt plate, side plate, etc.) and you will need to do the final inletting, and you will need to take a good deal of wood off of the pre- carved stock, and you will need to finish both the wood and the metal, and there are a bunch of steps which I've probably left off ... anyway ...

This is a project that can be accomplished with a modicum of mechanical aptitude, but if your abilities are limited in this respect to screwing in a lightbulb, you might be in over your head and headed for disappointment. If, however, you aren't intimidated by the idea of having to drill and tap your own threads and finish inletting a barrel channel, then by all means, go for it.

I would commend to your use the first book I bought on building ML rifles, The Gunsmith of Grenville County, by Peter Alexander. Mr. Alexander was the gunsmith at colonial Williamsburg, and his book is as impressive as his rifles. This book is spiral bound, and will set you back the better end of fifty bucks, but it's well worth the money if you consider the cost of parts you don't ruin, the time you don't waste waiting for replacement parts, and the bad language you don't use. There are several other books you should look at, and you should check out the many DVDs available (Track has a pretty good selection).

back to my 'kit:' it was completed about a week before Christmas and was a big hit. Something of an eye- opener, but then the bug had bitten, I was hooked, and the next build was involved a stock from a blank.

So, now you're warned: this stuff definitely has the potential to turn an otherwise normal person into a wood and metal worker, and a part time tool junkie. (Not that this is a bad thing, mind you).

Good luck with your project. Take pictures as you go, and don't hesitate to ask questions when you hit a snag.

 

[Zonie]

MSW's comments are true but they can be applied to any of the "kits" offered by TOTW, Pecatonica River or the other small suppliers of muzzleloader kits.

More to the point concerning the Hawken, Track of the Wolf's catalog says,

"...a Hawken rifle is not recommended for a first gun making project, unless you have machinist skills, or an experienced mentor to guide your work. This is a good third project. Assembly requires a knowledge of breech and lock geometry, the skilled use of inletting chisels to finish the pre-inlet stock, plus abrasives, stains and reagents for wood and metal finishing. You will need access to a sturdy drill press, to drill and tap the few screw holes..."

Another issue some may have with the Jim Bridger's Hawken is its weight and balance.
You may have noticed the TOTW kit comes with a 1 1/8" straight octagon barrel.
If you select this barrel instead of the much higher priced tapered barrel you will end up with a very heavy rifle. The barrel alone will weigh almost 8 1/2 pounds in .54 caliber and the finished gun will easily end up weighing over 12 pounds.
Even with a tapered barrel the Hawken rifles were very heavy guns, made for rough conditions.

Before you give up on your plans, if you want to think about a less expensive, lighter weight, a little easier to build rifle, consider the Leman rifles.
They were made in the early 1800's in both flintlock and percussion and in half stock and full stock versions.

The Leman's originally used low cost plain maple for their stocks, often with painted on stripes.
Going that route can save you money. Of course, the kits (from Pecatonica River) are also available in tiger stripe maple at a higher cost.

If you choose the 15/16" octagon X 36" length .54 cal barrel for a Leman, the barrel weight will be about 5 1/8 pounds.

Speaking of barrels, they usually come without the breech plug being installed or the sight (and underlug) dovetails being made.
Your getting basically a box of rough parts, remember?

I recommend the flintlock because they are easier to build but the Leman is offered in percussion as well.

Just something to think about.
While your thinking, don't forget to check out Pecatonica River's offerings. Often, their prices are less and they are perhaps the largest producer of pre-shaped muzzleloading rifle stocks.
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/

 

[Birddog6]

The T/C, CVA, Traditions, Lyman, InvestArms KITS are actually Assembly... kits, but builds. All the real work is done & you just trim things up, finish the wood as desired, finish the metal as desired, & assemble them. I'm not cutting them in any way,...... :shake: but they are what they are.

The TOW, Pecatonica, Tip Curtis, Chambers, TVA, etc. kits (IMHO incorrectly so-called) are basically a box of parts & you have to make it into a rifle.

Not even a close comparison. It is like comparing assembling a model car from cut out parts to a guy handing you a truckload of engine parts & saying "build me a Nascar engine." Not even in the same league.

I am not saying you cannot do it. Most can IF... they are good with hand tools & do a lil studying & most of all, buy a Builders Book first & read it.

Best advice I can say is Buy the Book First. Read it. Then decide if you want to invest $800. to $1000. to build a rifle.

I will also say the Bridger rifle is not what I suggest building first, unless you are a very accomplished with hand tools. It will be a extremely difficult build & easy to take $1000. worth of parts into a $150. rifle. I suggest a Tennessee or a Lancaster with no patchbox or carvings. Build about 5-6 rifles & then to the Bridger or Hawken, if you must have one. And contrary to most popular beliefs, a real... Hawken rifle is supposed to weigh 12-14#. They are very heavy & very nose heavy. I have seen few shoot them very long or accurately because that is allot of weight to hold for very long.

Keith Lisle

 

[Col. Batguano]

:thumbsup: To the average guy, a 12 lb rifle is pretty heavy. Because of the nose heaviness, it really needs a butt hook or some way to keep the butt from flipping up off your shoulder. I shoot a 14# gun as my competition .22, and that holds beautifully in the standing position. But, in addition to the butt hook, I also needed a stiff heavy shooting jacket too. Without the jacket I get too tired to shoot long of a string. (But that's how I practice in order to reinforce my technique and fundamentals. When I put on the jacket, pants, and shoes for competition, it seems like cheating.) None of that sort of thing is particularly standard fare in the ML'er game.

 

[don hepler]

A Tip Curtis " in the white", is easy for a beginner. In all reality, you could shoot the rifle as is. But you will have the opportunity to finish the rifle, the way you want it. I know a builder, who told me that building a Hawken, was the most difficult, custom rifle to build. He was talking about a tapered barrel, and building it as close to original, as possible. If I really wanted a custom Hawken, I'd buy one, "built".

 

[Eric Krewson]

Go watch "Duelist's" TOW kit gun building videos on Utube. You will see first hand what is involved in building these "kits".