My next project will be patterned after an early rifle, pictured in Shumway's Rifles of Colonial America, volume 1, as #40. Wallace Gusler believes this gun is of F&I War vintage, as does Shumway. It's unusual in that the trigger guard has no bow- it's open like some "jaegers". The other unusual feature is that the nosecap is really a noseband- a narrow band of brass set back from the very tip of the forestock. Should be a fun build. I'm going with a .58 Getz barrel, 38" long, and a Chambers Germanic lock. I'll make the mounts except the trigger guard. That will be modified from a Reeves Goehring casting. I'll keep ya posted. I'll use moderately curly maple- the original was plain maple but some curl never hurt, right? It will be a "spec gun"- no customer yet, but I have a hankering to build it.
next project- early rifle
- Thread starter rich pierce
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
That will be a nice piece Rich, it is nice to see somethjingbdifferent from what is readily available from most suppliers...I still wonder why no one has every offered a Shriet "kit" so a documenatble early rifle could be purchased.
I agree, but the scuttlebut is that maybe the Schreit rifle is not necessarily as it was when built, and that may be the problem- new trigger guard and maybe there was more of a step to the wrist originally. So, if I was making one, I'd be a little uncertain as to how to proceed. I have pictures of a Homer Dangler Schreit that would make any of us drool.
However, a rifle with similar bulk, lines, and baroque decoration would pass and the Schreit even as it is would be the basis for a great kit.
The market may be saturated on kits even for early pieces. The Mark Silver gun is a gem, there's the early Lancaster from several suppliers, the Marshall gun offered by a couple of outfits.
Never having built a longrifle from a kit, I'm skittish of them. The layout and planning of a gun are a lot of the challenge that i enjoy. Finding or modifying components, etc is part of the creative process for me.
On my list of pre-Revolutionary guns to build:
1) RCA 19 and as soon as the barrel and blank get here, the chips will fly. I've been waiting since November.... this will use the Chambers Germanic lock and a custom profiled oct to round .54 rifled barrel.
2) RCA 40 the "American jaeger" as it is sometimes called (I might have to start this one first as I have a barrel and lock coming next week, just need the wood and to make furniture)- .58 cal rifled.
3) RCA #84, the "ugly bird head patchbox rifle" (I'll leave off the patchbox and put on a better trigger guard). This could be .50-.58, depends.
4) An early Schroyer like RCA #92- a truly massive gun, probably make as a smooth rifle, probably also #90 in smoothbore
5) The "Free Born" rifle, RCA #114. The short barrel and .56 caliber of the original must make it a very light woodsrunner gun.
6) An early reading like RCA 21 that Earl Laning has
time to do it!
However, a rifle with similar bulk, lines, and baroque decoration would pass and the Schreit even as it is would be the basis for a great kit.
The market may be saturated on kits even for early pieces. The Mark Silver gun is a gem, there's the early Lancaster from several suppliers, the Marshall gun offered by a couple of outfits.
Never having built a longrifle from a kit, I'm skittish of them. The layout and planning of a gun are a lot of the challenge that i enjoy. Finding or modifying components, etc is part of the creative process for me.
On my list of pre-Revolutionary guns to build:
1) RCA 19 and as soon as the barrel and blank get here, the chips will fly. I've been waiting since November.... this will use the Chambers Germanic lock and a custom profiled oct to round .54 rifled barrel.
2) RCA 40 the "American jaeger" as it is sometimes called (I might have to start this one first as I have a barrel and lock coming next week, just need the wood and to make furniture)- .58 cal rifled.
3) RCA #84, the "ugly bird head patchbox rifle" (I'll leave off the patchbox and put on a better trigger guard). This could be .50-.58, depends.
4) An early Schroyer like RCA #92- a truly massive gun, probably make as a smooth rifle, probably also #90 in smoothbore
5) The "Free Born" rifle, RCA #114. The short barrel and .56 caliber of the original must make it a very light woodsrunner gun.
6) An early reading like RCA 21 that Earl Laning has
time to do it!
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,379
- Reaction score
- 246
TG, I have to agree. I wish someone would make a kit of the Schreit rifle as well. I almost have one "finished in the white". This is my first gun from scratch so there are a few mistakes. I'd origionally planned to do an early Virginia but after seeing the lines of the Schreit rifle after my friend built one I changed my mind. Mine's not an exact copy, I used a .50 cal barrel with a swamp so mild you really have to look to see it. It was built on Bill Large's equipment by a fellow named Jim Bill Mckenzie. I think he was Bill's grandson or nephew maybe. The lock is a Davis early american and I picked the wood up a few years ago at Golden age before they shut down. It is a plain peice of maple but very dense and sturdy. It should make a fine gunstock. I'm a bit dissapointed in some of my mistakes but hopefully I'll get better. Rich I'll be anxious to see the completed product. If the guns I've seen you post on the board are an indication of your work it will be a nice one
Guest
You guys are loosing a lot of folks trying to follow this thread. I's a nice friendly private conversation between people speaking a language not common to the bulk of the population. It's like the guys telling jokes in prison where they have all of the jokes numbered. Somebody calls out a number and everyone starts laughing.
Between RCA, Shumway, Bevins and a couple of others you are talking several hundred $$$in books by Authors that some of the shooters on the forum have never heard of. Shumway's set and RCA cost more than some of these guys have invested in their whole outfit!
Post a picture for those so unfortunate as to not have been properly educated in the finer points of the Gospel According to Shumway.
Additionally, you guys all know that there are lines on those rifles that no photograph can properly capture and your quest for perfection based on recreation from pictures is a futile effort. Not that you should not try!
:hmm:
Between RCA, Shumway, Bevins and a couple of others you are talking several hundred $$$in books by Authors that some of the shooters on the forum have never heard of. Shumway's set and RCA cost more than some of these guys have invested in their whole outfit!
Post a picture for those so unfortunate as to not have been properly educated in the finer points of the Gospel According to Shumway.
Additionally, you guys all know that there are lines on those rifles that no photograph can properly capture and your quest for perfection based on recreation from pictures is a futile effort. Not that you should not try!
:hmm:
Don't like the scolding tone, Ghost. Maybe unintentional, hope so. I'm not ticked- just won't stand for a scolding when it's undeserved. I'll have to check- maybe you're the new moderator. If so, I respect authority and will try to comply with your guidelines.
Here's the deal: I am about building early rifles. I have certain ones in mind. This might be of interest to a topic area called "building". I assumed folks in this space may have a book or two showing original guns.
I wish we could post the pix, but copyright laws prohibit our doing so. Given that Shumway spent years developing those books, the price of the volumes is cheap. The guns are not widely known; research into our areas of interest takes expenditure. I bet you've got some books.
Probably most of the conversations in our forums are similar- we're an obscure bunch at best. I've seen plenty of such, whether it be about the right style of garters, whatever. Something maybe 4 people care about.
I tried to say something descriptive about each gun, give some particulars. I'm no artist but maybe I could get my daughter to sketch the guns I'd like to talk about. Be easier to just not talk about it till I've got something built.
Here's the deal: I am about building early rifles. I have certain ones in mind. This might be of interest to a topic area called "building". I assumed folks in this space may have a book or two showing original guns.
I wish we could post the pix, but copyright laws prohibit our doing so. Given that Shumway spent years developing those books, the price of the volumes is cheap. The guns are not widely known; research into our areas of interest takes expenditure. I bet you've got some books.
Probably most of the conversations in our forums are similar- we're an obscure bunch at best. I've seen plenty of such, whether it be about the right style of garters, whatever. Something maybe 4 people care about.
I tried to say something descriptive about each gun, give some particulars. I'm no artist but maybe I could get my daughter to sketch the guns I'd like to talk about. Be easier to just not talk about it till I've got something built.
Guest
Come on Rich, I've seen pics of the Schreit rifle on the forums. #40 and #42 are in a dozen magazine articles. On top of that I have heard no complaints of Shumway sueing any students of his work for copyright infringement!
comedian.......#1
audience....... :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
comedian.......#1
audience....... :crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
One point to be realized is that some owners of original rifles are rather secretive about their ownership. Some of these pieces will never see the light of day, but sit in a vault. The only place the "Joe on the street" will see them is in RCA I & II. I will admit that the $120 price for the set ain't cheap, but that's the cost of four quality chisels. I don't want to be limited to the patterns or pre carved stocks on the market, so I bought the RCA set. I prefer early, transitional rifles, mixing Germanic and Colonial styles. Again, the Longrifle Series by Shumway is the broadest path.
If you took your own pictures of rifle XYZ and posted/published them, that's not copyright infringement. To use Mr. ABC's pictures without giving credit to the source is copyright infringement, as I understand the law. :m2c:
If you took your own pictures of rifle XYZ and posted/published them, that's not copyright infringement. To use Mr. ABC's pictures without giving credit to the source is copyright infringement, as I understand the law. :m2c:
Of course, I am no lawyer, (which is why you guys let me stay on the forum?) but I think of forums like this as being somewhat in the same catagory as research papers.
At the risk of being sued, I'll say that IMO, if the source of a photo is given (along with the copyright date), little harm can come from posting a picture out of such noted books as Shumways RIFLES OF COLONIAL AMERICA and other books. In fact, I think the author should be pleased with the free advertising.
As for folks refering to good ole #39 and #50 (or whatever), if the discussion were going on in the Precussion Forum, or the Flintlock Forum, or even the General Interest forums, I would agree with Ghost. The average reader will be lost.
As this is the Builders Bench Forum, aimed at those people who spend time (and money) building and researching fine rifles, I have no objection to them being used here.
Yes, it would be nice to have photos of the various guns to support the comments being made, but not everyone is set up to provide these photos.
I'm sure a lot of folks would be interested in seeing the pictures, but even without them, many of our readers do know what is being discussed. Occasionally even I get have figured out what is being said.
Bottom line? Those with ideas about how to make this forum more enjoyable should feel free to suggest them but at the same time, they should be willing to accept what is given.
At the risk of being sued, I'll say that IMO, if the source of a photo is given (along with the copyright date), little harm can come from posting a picture out of such noted books as Shumways RIFLES OF COLONIAL AMERICA and other books. In fact, I think the author should be pleased with the free advertising.
As for folks refering to good ole #39 and #50 (or whatever), if the discussion were going on in the Precussion Forum, or the Flintlock Forum, or even the General Interest forums, I would agree with Ghost. The average reader will be lost.
As this is the Builders Bench Forum, aimed at those people who spend time (and money) building and researching fine rifles, I have no objection to them being used here.
Yes, it would be nice to have photos of the various guns to support the comments being made, but not everyone is set up to provide these photos.
I'm sure a lot of folks would be interested in seeing the pictures, but even without them, many of our readers do know what is being discussed. Occasionally even I get have figured out what is being said.
Bottom line? Those with ideas about how to make this forum more enjoyable should feel free to suggest them but at the same time, they should be willing to accept what is given.
Guest
Keep doing what yer doing Rich, seems like the last couple months Ghost has had too much starch in his sheets, and they're chaffing him, either that or he's maybe thinking of going back to teaching. Love to read yer stuff, even if I have to go to the library to read RCA. This forums for everyone, of every skill level, even inliners, and cranky old Caspers :crackup: Bill
"...this thread falls under the protection of Article #1 in the Consitution."
_____________________________________________
Well, not exactly...It falls under the protection of Claude 'n Zonie. :kid:
_____________________________________________
Well, not exactly...It falls under the protection of Claude 'n Zonie. :kid:
Similar threads
