Next step for the knife?

[leam]

A while back I attened a primitive knife making class. Had fun and started to build a camp knife. Was planning on putting cordage and some other stuff with it for a survival knife, then got interested in buckskinning.

Knife needs a handle, what's the right way to attach wood? Any issues with the shape, assuming 1700-1800 era? To sharpen it for camp use, I have a file. Does it matter which direction the file is used?

Thanks!

Leam

 

[T.C.Albert]

Looks like a good knife to put a classic wooden scale handle on...that can be drilled and pined like the old 6 pin butchers were done...or you could drill and use commercial brass cutlers or "Chicago" rivets, though they are quite a bit "later" than folks generally use for historical reenacting...you can even use any heavy wire or nails that you happen to have handy for the pin stock if you like...

just profile the handle like you want it, make your scales to fit the profile from your favorite wood...decide on how many pins you want to use and where you want them, drill the holes through the scales and corresponding holes through the knife handle that are "the same size" as your prefered pin stock, and carefully drive in the pins, perhaps peening them a bit as needed for a good solid fit of the scales to the knife...finish the wood as desired.

However...if your knife is still soft enough to easily sharpen with a file, I am wondering if it still needs to be hardened and tempered? Maybe not, just wondering (is that a quench/hamon line across the blade diagonally?)...if it is un hardened and untempered,it may be best not to put any handle on just yet...?
TCA

 

[leam]

We didn't sharpen them, but did heat and quench in oil a few times. This is a new learning area for me so assume I know nothing and you'd be close to 100%.

Leam

 

[MSW]

never took a shop class (my mother thought that i would make a great drunken irish poet ... well, i got some of it right, but you have be nice to me or i'll make you read some of my poetry,,, and that if i learned anything about the 'real world' as in, for instance, by taking a shop class and associating with 'those people' - you know, the folks who earn a living with their hands, that i'd never fulfil her fondest wishes ...my United Steel Workers Union Card number is around here somewhere) ... :blah:

my brother (who hasn't the work ethic God gave a housecat) took a shop class, and i remember he was all excited about heating just the tip of his newly made screwdriver so that the tip was hard and the shaft was strong but not brittle. i should think that if your knife is soft enough to be sharpened with a file, you would want to do the same sort of thing... a sort of de facto differential tempering for which Japanese swordmakers are famous... don't know - i may be way off base, but you'd gret better use out of the knife, and you'd be using techniques and tools which were readily availabe to anyone of that era.

just the rantings of a not poet ...

make good smoke!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Buy your own copy of the "Razor Edge Book of Sharpening", by John Juranich, and learn how to sharpen knives. Its the best book available on the subject. The blade should not be so soft that you can touch it easily with a file. It needs to be harder. I don't know what steel they had you use. Read past posts here to find out about knife steels. :thumbsup:

 

[leam]

Paul,

I'm a bit short on cash for a while so trying to make what little I have go as far as possible.

If a file isn't the right solution, but we didn't make even simple edge before quenching it in oil, is stoning the solution? The edge is still .030" to .040" thick.

I'd like to end up with a useable camp knife, so no keen edge to split a gnat's hair required. Given that I'm rather clumsy, maybe even dull is too much.

Leam

 

[J.M.]

Hi Leam, thats a pretty good looking first knife there. If the blade was heated and quenched, its going to need to be tempered or it will be too hard. Run the file on the edge. If you quenched it properly, the file will skate across it, and not bite in. The tempering process depends on the type of steel the blade is made of. Did you quench the entire blade or just the edge? If the entire blade was quenched, you will also need to assure the handle is soft enough to drill some holes for attaching the handle scales. Maybe you can touch base with someone from the class you took and find out the steel, how to temper it etc?

 

[leam]

Hi Leam, thats a pretty good looking first knife there. If the blade was heated and quenched, its going to need to be tempered or it will be too hard. Run the file on the edge. If you quenched it properly, the file will skate across it, and not bite in. The tempering process depends on the type of steel the blade is made of. Did you quench the entire blade or just the edge? If the entire blade was quenched, you will also need to assure the handle is soft enough to drill some holes for attaching the handle scales. Maybe you can touch base with someone from the class you took and find out the steel, how to temper it etc?

Hey J.M., thanks!

Found my notes from class. The blade is, I believe, 1095 steel We oil quenched it and then tempered it for 500 degrees for about an hour. The blade only was quenced, if I remember correctly. The heating furnace was rather small and used a propane gas jet so there was a great difference between the blade color and the handle. I'll try some drilling on the handle today and see how it goes.

The steps we went through were:
1. Anneal
2. Slow cool (overnight)
3. Forge work (fun stuff!)
4. Normalize
5. Heat Treat (oil quench)
6. Tempering

Glad I took notes!

Leam

 

[LRB]

Annealing before forging was a waste of time, but everything else may have been adequate enough for your purposes. I suspect the tang will be quite hard if it is 1095, as it will air harden somewhat. You may try a cobalt drill bit, or drilling the tang while red hot with the blade portion in a vise to act as a heat sink. 1095 was a poor choice for the instructor to use for such a class. 1095 is not so easily heat treated or worked as lower carbon simple steels. A better choice would have been 1070/75/or 80. To clean up you will need to grind it, or wear out a few files trying.

 

[NJStricker]

leam,

Do you have access to a bench top belt sander? Say, a 1x30 or 2x42?

 

[leam]

leam,

Do you have access to a bench top belt sander? Say, a 1x30 or 2x42?

NJ, nope. Finishing this will be all by hand. It'll give me an appreciation for the old timer's though!

Leam

 

[leam]

Well, have confirmed with the guy that hosted the class, the metal is 1095. Broke a small drill bit trying to get through the handle. Started stoning the edge and for the heck of it tried a file. File does work, with pressure. Back to mostly stoning to get a decent edge though. Knife will be for camp use, so a decent edge is enough. Have to go find some wood for a handle. Will probably drill a larger hole and use a wood dowel for holding the handle on.

Thanks!

Leam

 

[LRB]

Put the blade portion in a vise to act as a heat sink, then heat the tang red hot a few times letting it air cool between heats. You may get it soft enough to drill easier. Suggest to your instructor that 1070/75/80, would be a much better steel for him and his students to learn with. 1095 is not easy to work, or heat treat properly, even for pro's.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Drill the hole in the tang while the tang is red hot. You might need a friend to hold the propane torch to the tang while you hold and control the hand drill. An ordinary drill bit will cut through hot steel like its cutting soft pine.

Use some kind of metal pin to hold the slabs on. Not a wooden dowel. Unless you were planning to epoxy glue everything together, anyway. Then, it will be the epoxy that is holding the slabs on, not the peg. I have never seen any reason for a " camp knife" to be crudely made. Use this first blade as your learning piece. It will show all your mistakes and successes, and remind you always of the ways you "fixed" those errors. But, learn to put a fine edge on this knife. You will use it more, and enjoy having it more with a fine edge. :thumbsup:

 

[leam]

Track of the Wolf catalogue came yesterday so I now have a source of supply for the brass pinning. Will just chuck the blade in the vise and fire up the propane torch.

Thanks! I'll see how good I can make this one.

Leam

 

[LRB]

If you care about authenticity, brass pins would have been rare to almost non-existant. Iron was the more common metal for pins. Nails, or 3/32"/1/8" would would work well.