Next step pin barrel or tang bolt?

[agill]

In Ron Ehlert's DVD "Assembling Kentucky Rifles from a Kit" he installs the trigger plate and tang bolt before pinning the barrel. Mike Brooks tutorial shows the pins first then the tang bolt later. Is there any reason to which step should be done before the other?

 

[Erzulis boat]

I have in no way the vast building experience of the builders above, but I will always pin the barrel first.

I have made quite a few rifles/smoothbores by now, and like to get the barrel settled in the channel, and the breech contact area nice and square.

Securing the tang first can pull this setup out of line.

Just my take-

Your tang bolt will be at an angle, where the pins secure the barrel in a very predictable manner. I have a series of wooden clamps that secure the barrel exactly where I want it, then I drill the pin holes. If there is a slight gap beneath the tang when the barrel is settled down/rearward, the barrel will rock, or sometimes even twist a wee bit in the channel.

Andrew B.

 

[Frank/Pa]

You can't go wrong following Mike Brooks tutorial.

 

[Birddog6]

There is no way I could possibly know a tad of what Ron Elhert knew, but let's back up just a bit.......

1: You do have the lock in the inlet at least 75% of the way so you know FOr Sure where the pan is alligned to the barrel flat ?

2: You know where the vent liner is going to go vs breechplug face & both of these items are OK ? You have the center of the vent liner hole marked & etc. ? (this is not a time to guess where the vent liner is going to end up. If you don't have the vent liner in front of the breechplug face, you have a problem)

3: You have the barrel inletted & the tang inletted & the breech is solid & no gaps behind it ? (If there are gaps behind it, you need to bed the breech now)

4: Now you put the underlugs on & inlet them into the barrel channel & pin the barrel to the stock. You need the barrel in, bedded, stable & pinned before ya do the tangbolt & trigger asm. (IMHO)

5: Then you inlet the trigger asm. in the proper position & then you drill for the tang bolt & tap the triggerplate for the bolt & etc.

Than is how I do them & it has always worked well for me.

:thumbsup:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Pin the barrel, that way it won't scoot forward when you drill the tang bolt through. I've seen alot of top notch builders have a gap between the wood and the breech of the barrel from doing this step out of sequence. A gap at the breech = a very poor shooting gun.

 

[rich pierce]

Besides it's just good to finish everything you need to do in the barrel channel while you're working there. Get the lugs inletted and pin them.

 

[agill]

There is no way I could possibly know a tad of what Ron Elhert knew, but let's back up just a bit.......

1: You do have the lock in the inlet at least 75% of the way so you know FOr Sure where the pan is alligned to the barrel flat ?

2: You know where the vent liner is going to go vs breechplug face & both of these items are OK ? You have the center of the vent liner hole marked & etc. ? (this is not a time to guess where the vent liner is going to end up. If you don't have the vent liner in front of the breechplug face, you have a problem)

3: You have the barrel inletted & the tang inletted & the breech is solid & no gaps behind it ? (If there are gaps behind it, you need to bed the breech now)

4: Now you put the underlugs on & inlet them into the barrel channel & pin the barrel to the stock. You need the barrel in, bedded, stable & pinned before ya do the tangbolt & trigger asm. (IMHO)

5: Then you inlet the trigger asm. in the proper position & then you drill for the tang bolt & tap the triggerplate for the bolt & etc.

Than is how I do them & it has always worked well for me.

:thumbsup:

1. Yes

2.Not marked, but I checked and seems fine

3.No gaps

4.Sounds reasonable

5.OK, I'll do this step after pinning the barrel.

Thanks, Allen

 

[agill]

Pin the barrel, that way it won't scoot forward when you drill the tang bolt through. I've seen alot of top notch builders have a gap between the wood and the breech of the barrel from doing this step out of sequence. A gap at the breech = a very poor shooting gun.

Will do.
Thanks, Allen

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Pin the barrel, that way it won't scoot forward when you drill the tang bolt through.

Great tip Mike! So I'll also assume that I shouldn't make the slot in the barrel tenon with the jeweler's saw 'til after the tang bolt is drilled? For the same reason ... ??

 

[Mike Brooks]

Pin the barrel, that way it won't scoot forward when you drill the tang bolt through.

Great tip Mike! So I'll also assume that I shouldn't make the slot in the barrel tenon with the jeweler's saw 'til after the tang bolt is drilled? For the same reason ... ??

:thumbsup:

 

[mazo kid]

Mike, here's another question....I want to use keys instead of pins. I'm thinking that I should pin the bbl first, then tang bolt, etc. THEN when everything is nice and secure, use the pin holes to determine where the keys need to go. Does this sound right? Thanks. Emery

 

[user 13289]

slight drift of topic.

...I've seen alot of top notch builders have a gap between the wood and the breech of the barrel from doing this step out of sequence...

Does not compute in my processor. How does one attain status of Top-Notch with gappy work? Can you 'splain that a touch Mike? Please-no naming names.

 

[Mike Brooks]

slight drift of topic.

...I've seen alot of top notch builders have a gap between the wood and the breech of the barrel from doing this step out of sequence...

Does not compute in my processor. How does one attain status of Top-Notch with gappy work? Can you 'splain that a touch Mike? Please-no naming names.

Just take a look at peoples work, you'll see what I mean.
I'm not saying my work is any where near perfect, but when you get way up there in $ I would expect things to be pretty tight.

 

[Mike Brooks]

I build few keyed guns, very labor intensive and I have to charge alot for it so I get few requests. Drilling pins through first sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[Birddog6]

I would not suggest a keyed or wedgepinned barrel for several builds. Reason being is the wedgepins stand out like a sore thumb if they are not even all the way down the barrel, vs. a round pin is ALLOT less obvious if it is off a little. Also if you have any moldings down the forestock & the wedgepins are off, then it is even more obvious... etc.

The few keyed barrels I have done, I round pinned the barrel first & got the rifle in the white & then made the decision of whether to wedgepin the underlugs or not. If everything came out even & in line & perfect, then I would consider the keys if the rifle style or original builder had a history of some of them being keyed.

You can cover up minor screwups on the slotted holes if you use escutcheon plates, but then you get into more inletting & fitting & etc., and as Mike said, very time consuming. And again, if one is high, then one low, then one high, then on low, IMHO it's gonna look like crapola & you would have just been better off with round pinned the barrel. Lining up one or two on a halfstock is one thing........ doing 4 in a row on both sides at are aligned & perfect & matched, that is a nuther thing.....

:hmm:

 

[user 13289]

slight drift of topic.

...I've seen alot of top notch builders have a gap between the wood and the breech of the barrel from doing this step out of sequence...

Does not compute in my processor. How does one attain status of Top-Notch with gappy work? Can you 'splain that a touch Mike? Please-no naming names.

Just take a look at peoples work, you'll see what I mean.
I'm not saying my work is any where near perfect, but when you get way up there in $ I would expect things to be pretty tight.

Well, that's what I'm thinking "Top Notch" would indicate--fine fitment and execution all 'round. There's a rifle or two in a catalog with serious gappage for my tastes--even if I was copying an original, I just couldn't bring myself to do that. They might have displayed such intentionally to encourage the amateur. But as usual my cart is out in front of the mule.

Thanks a bunch for doing your Tutorial Mike. :thumbsup: I get so wrapped up in doing my stuff that I'd never get all the photos taken when they should have been.

wp

 

[Vaino]

My first LR has 4 keys in lieu of pins and have done 5 others, all w/ escutcheons and there is a lot of labor installing them as was said. My dovetailed bbl lugs for pins are made from brass but I make them from steel when used w/ keys and the loop is made from the start. I lay out the loop slots a tad lower on the outside of the fore end and use an undersize "key" that's red hot to burn the slot. A few drilled holes w/in the slot layout helps w/ the burning. After both sides are burned in, a file is used on each of the upper surfaces of the slot to achieve the desired loop/key fit. A bit of calculating is req'd to line up the 4 keys to be parallel w/ the fore stock when a swamped bbl is used. Fiddling w/ 8 escutcheons is a lot more work including the 16 tiny retaining pins. I sell all my MLers but don't depend on them for a living so I can well "fiddle" around a little....Fred