nipple blew out!

[rawhide]

ok guys yesterday a friend of mine was shooting his .54 traditions woodsmen. and the nipple blew out of the gun. the load was 70 grains of powder (rs) a .530 ball and a .010 patch. we are trying to figure out why this happened. herd of it happening but never saw one before. he just put a new main spring in the lock for one. from tradtions. also installed a new nipple. I havn,t seen the gun yet. alot is running thruogh my mind like was the nipple tight, main spring to heavy, ball not seated on the charge or was it weak steal? we need some input please. thanks rawhide.

 

[Sandhiler]

First thing that came to mind was the wrong size nipple which could have been the size or even the teeth. It might have screwed in and felt tight but was in fact loose. Some take metric while others take regular teeth, and both come in a variety of sizes. I shot one out of my old muzzle loader but figured it was only finger started and not tight.

 

[rawhide]

that very well may be the case here. he said the one from the new pack felt loose so he tryed the other one and it screwed down tight. the nipples are 6x1 treads from traditions. he,s brining the gun in to my work today so I ca see it. I'll let you know what I see.

 

[cowpoke1955]

I built my son-in-law a .50 Traditions Hawkens kit. Our first time at the range the nipple cracked in half after a couple of shots. I replaced it with a Spitfire nipple from Dixie and had no other problems. I feel the Traditions nipples are of very low quality.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

Clean the threads real good with hot water and a tooth brush, then check for any damage. When a nipple does "blow-out", it leaves a lot of black powder residue in the female threads. Hopefully all you'll need is a good replacement as Cowpoke said!

I use only Lyman nipples in my Lyman rifles. They take metric thread. The replacement nipples from Lyman can be put in by hand with just a drop of oil on the threads prior to the attempt. If you need to use a nipple wrench just to start the nipple in, you're probably cross-threading or buggering-up the female threads, which can lead to a blow-out.

Nipples are funny creatures, and you have to examine them closely to make sure that they really fit the rifle. Such things as thread pitch and thread depth, in addition to the regular or metric-sized threads have to be taken into consideration. You might have everything correct, except for the pitch or thread depth, and can create a blow-out situation with this improperly fitting nipple.

Good luck and let us know what you found.

Dave

 

[Jan Borinski]

I built my son-in-law a .50 Traditions Hawkens kit. Our first time at the range the nipple cracked in half after a couple of shots. I replaced it with a Spitfire nipple from Dixie and had no other problems. I feel the Traditions nipples are of very low quality.

I can copy that!Had a brand new Ardesa(Traditions)Ranger in.45.Shot it two balls and when I pulled the trigger the third time the nipple-head broke apart.At least this one must have been really poor quality..

 

[smo]

I blew one out of a Investarms .50 cal once.Dang lucky it didn't knock a hole my head. I was bench shooting and was down on the stock more than i would have been off hand. I had a mis fire,popped a couple of caps and noting happened.So after a few mins. passed i took the nipple out and drizzled in a few grns. of powder all while BS'n with my shootin' buddy. Screwed the nipple back in and forgot to wrench it tight. :redface: The rest of the story is history,It blew the nipple completly out ,re cocked the hammer to half cock and God only knows where the nipple went.I was just lucky that myself or anyone else got hurt. So when i shoot now if there's others around i keep the BS to a minimum.

 

[rawhide]

I still yet to see the gun. he said it blow the threads out of the gun. so? no treads left... :hmm: the thread pitch on tradtions are 6x1 metric if I remember. so he bought 6x1 thread musket nipples. I don't know hope to see the gun soon so I can exzamen it and see what the damages are.

 

[Zonie]

Anything is possible I guess but unless he cross threaded the breech or just plain forgot to screw the nipple in before firing it there isn't too much that can cause a nipple to blow out.

If the gun had a 1/4-28 nipple I might suggest that he had used a (undersize) 6mm nipple in it but, according to my information you are correct in saying the gun should use a M6 x 1mm threaded nipple and there is no way he could screw a 1/4-28 nipple into it. :hmm: Come to think about it, if he tried screwing a 1/4-28 nipple into it "until it was tight" it would only have about 1 thread engaged before "tight" was reached. :hmm:

Anyway, a 6mm thread in a mild steel part should be able to resist over a 2500 pound load without a problem.
With a breech pressure of 18,000 psi the force on a 6mm thread would be 788.8 pounds.
If the nipple was tightened using normal wrist torque on a nipple wrench I wouldn't expect there to be over 1,000 pounds of pre-load.
This would result in a total force of 1788.8 pounds which is well below the strength of the threads.

Something else is at work here.

 

[smo]

The threads could be just full of burnt powder. Maybe that is all he is seeing and the threads will be ok. I think all i had to do was "chase" the threads on mine.If i remember correctly. :idunno: It's been along time ago and i gotten CRS since. :shake: But i do remember that sick feeling on my stomach when it happened.I'm just glad anyone didn't get hurt in either case.

 

[CZMark]

It may be that the nipple broke and the threaded portion of the nipple is still in the bolster, broken off flush and giving the appearance of no threads.

 

[Eterry]

A hundred years ago I has shot my CVA so much the nipple looked worn down, so a guy at deer camp gave me a pack of nipples and told me they are all the same! I threaded one in and it didnt feel right, but I used it anyway. Fast forward a month or two and I was shooting it behind the house, the nipple blew out, hit me in the forehead, covered my face in black soot, and I been like this ever since!!! Carried it to a 'smith who told me I had the wrong size nipples for the threads, sold me a pack of metric threads and all was well.

Eterry

 

[pa woods roamer]

I was at a local shoot where a fellow shooter had a Nipple blow out of His T/C Seneca.He had forgotten to tighten it from cleaning from the last shoot! Bounced of His Forehead and flipped his Hat off His Head!

 

[mykeal]

Here are the specs for the various nipple sizes available in regular commerce these days:

Zonie is correct that a 1/4x28 nipple won't start in a 6mm threaded hole; the MD is too large. However, there are a couple of other possibilities: a 6x.75 nipple would just start, and could be forced for about 1 1/2 turns; after that I think you'd have to be stripping the threads on the nipple. That's possible, but not easy, with a nipple wrench. The other is a 12x28; the threads are very close but it would feel very loose. I'm not sure it would even engage, but if it did you could get it to bottom out and appear tight. It would have no structural integrity, however.

And just for what it's worth, I have purchased nipples that were in mismarked packages...

 

[KentuckyMan]

Well :hmm: I had to change my nipples after putting together my kit. They were defective, and only lasted a few shots.. But now I got these stainless steal kind. No flat tire nipples for me :grin:

 

[rawhide]

na theres no treads left. :shocked2: it blew what was left out. oly thing Ican come up with is the nipple shatared. and because of it blew what was left out of the drum. :hmm:

 

[Zonie]

I hate to say it but the only fix is to replace the drum.

Retapping with a 1/4-28 tap won't produce enough threads to be safe.

 

[contenderfan]

Ive also heard of this happening when the threads in the drum or patent breech have rusted really bad from neglect. Could that be a possibility with this particular rifle? I have examined lots of used guns and more often than not will pass on one due to severly rusted threads in this area.

 

[rawhide]

well we're goning to do better. make it a flinter.

 

[mykeal]

well we're goning to do better. make it a flinter.

Yes!

Nothing wrong with the way you think. :hatsoff: