Nipple Life

[smoothshooter]

Am curious as to what kind of life can one expect to get out of Ampco nipples before the flash channel starts to burn out and become oversize? I have a Unerti .36 Navy that I have fired well over a thousand times, maybe two thousand times, and yesterday I started getting cap jams from pieces being blown back and jamming up between the rounded shoulder at the rear of the cylinder and the recoil shield.
Taking a look at the holes in the nipples, it seemed like they were larger than when I installed them when I bought the gun new 3 years ago.
When the total number of shots fired in this gun is divided by the number of chambers ( 6 ) , that's not that many shots per nipple.
Reproduction revolvers typically come with nipples that have oversized flash holes. Don't know why the Italians persist in doing this. I replaced the originals because they were causing too many cap jams.
Could my nipples be burned out this soon?

 

[nkbj]

The ones you currently have are aluminum bronze?

 

[smoothshooter]

Don't know. I think they are the Ampco type and I don't know exactly what alloy they are; I just know the have a good reputation for longevity.

 

[Zonie]

AMPCO makes several hundred different alloys. http://datasheets.globalspec.com/ds/4261/AMPCO_METAL

The most notable feature of the Ampco used for percussion nipples is it has a bronze/brass tint to its color.

Although it is highly resistant to hot gas corrosion, perhaps better than stainless steel, it will eventually wear out.

Although it will last noticeably longer than the carbon steel nipples, I don't know of any tests that give actual data for comparison.

 

[smoothshooter]

Well, maybe the ones I have are not as good as I thought. They were a black color when new, not the bronze or lighter color. And they did have the smaller orifice.

 

[M. De Land]

When they start blowing the spent and split caps off the cones under a properly tensioned hammer you know they are burned out.
Caps should stay on the cones under a properly shaped and fitted hammer face after firing if the main spring tension is correct and the cones are in good shape. They will be split but still there to plug the nipple hole from back blast.
To light of a hammer spring tension and burned out cones makes them susceptible to chain fire when the spent primers are blown off the cones/nipples.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Really not an issue. If you think the nips might be causing a problem, replace them. Nipples are a disposable items and not to be considered a permanent part of the gun.

 

[Zonie]

I'm not saying that someone might have figured out a way to color Ampco alloys black but I don't know why they would.

Most stainless steels can't easily be colored black.

That leaves carbon steel as the most likely material your nipples are made from.

As you know, carbon steel can be hardened and tempered to be quite tough so it can resist hammer blows without deforming, but it has very little resistance to hot gas corrosion.

It would probably be a good idea to change them out to either stainless or Ampco.

 

[smoothshooter]

I had already decided to replace the nipples, but the extra set I have on hand are just like the ones that are in the gun now. Will order new Ampco or stainless nipples Tuesday from TOW if they have them.
Any recommendations on someone that will be the most likely to send me the right size the first time?
Thank for the info, everyone.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I had already decided to replace the nipples, but the extra set I have on hand are just like the ones that are in the gun now. Will order new Ampco or stainless nipples Tuesday from TOW if they have them.
Any recommendations on someone that will be the most likely to send me the right size the first time?
Thank for the info, everyone.

They always have the size I need in stock & ship promptly:
http://jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?searchWord=treso ampco nipples&pid=863&offset=0

 

[smoothshooter]

I was going through some some of my extra BP stuff last night, and found some new stainless niples for my Uberti Navy.
Was surprised to find the flash holes were the same large size as the ones that are giving me trouble now.
Then I found a package of Treso brand nipples that fit my Pocket Navy, and remembered - Treso nipples have the smallest flash holes of any manufacturers according to what I have read. Those are what I need. They are some type of Ampco made alloy that may not be as erosion - resistant as one of the high - carbon stainless alloys, but they do have the small flash channel I need.
They can be bought from The Possibles Shop, and Jededia Starr, as AZpowderburner mentioned.
Will place order tomorrow.

 

[trent/OH]

A few years ago I was range officering at Friendship and a shooter's rifle simple would not fire with a brand new nipple. He couldn't even make a leaf dance by busting several caps through it. When we pulled the brand new nipple, we learned that it didn't have a hole all the way through! Thus the diameter of the hole was 0.00", which is not quite big enough.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Checking the link the price is 5$ each, probably not unreasonable price but I've bought stainless nipples from a forgotten supplier for around 2$ each maybe bit less. I bought 2 sets (12). They've lasted well, I chucked them in a drill and used a file to remove mushrooming once, couple years back. Seems they came from a Pietta parts supplier as they are for my '58 .44 and take #10 caps.
Since .22lr has seemingly vanished I've taken my revolver(s) and or my .58 smoothie capper CVA Hawken on campouts with friends and family.

 

[Artificer]

From decades of watching NSSA shooters, who do shoot their muskets and revolvers a lot and perhaps more than most others, plus being a reenactor where though just blank loads, we shot the guns MUCH more than they ever did in the period - I think it is a good idea to put a brand new nipple (or set of nipples in a revolver) on a gun at the start of each shooting season. That way, even if you shoot the gun a whole lot, you should rarely have to worry about needing replacement nipple/s that year.

Of course, on a rifle or rifled musket especially, it is a good idea to test fire the new nipple and see if it affects accuracy. It normally should not, but better to find out before a match or important hunt or shoot.

When I became the Team Armourer for the USIMLT, I strongly advised putting a new nipple/s on their guns at the start of the year. I suggested the LAST thing they needed before going to a Zone shoot or International Championship was a nipple that was or went bad during an important shoot. Well, not everyone did it....

One of our best and most experienced Lady shooters decided she didn't need to do it as she thought the nipple in her gun was "just fine." (This story is not meant to denigrate her or women shooters, it just happened the experienced shooter in this case was a Lady.) She had won a lot of medals in previous World Championships and was expected to take home at least one or two Gold Medals as well as other medals.

The second day of practice, her GREAT shooting original rifle just went to Heck in a Hand Basket and was throwing shots all over the place. I came back from a visit to the "Scrutiny Area" where guns were inspected for the competition and found her in somewhat of a panic waiting for me.

When I asked her what was wrong and she told me, I asked when was the last time she had changed the nipple in the gun? She told me she thought it was the year before. Fortunately even though it was an original rifle, it had already been tapped for modern nipples, so it was no problem installing a replacement. I told her a new nipple MIGHT change the point of impact slightly or the group size, so she needed to carefully shoot some more shots to see if that would happen. It did not change either the group size or point of impact, but by checking for it, she did not have to worry about that for the Matches.

I wish I could tell you she won the Gold Medal in the Ladies Original Percussion Rifle, 100 Metter prone match, but she got the Silver Medal instead. She let the pressure get to her a bit, BUT that was not the only "problem." The Lady who beat her was the wife of the Swiss Team Captain. I had brought back her original percussion Jaeger rifle from the dead a couple days before, after some butcher with a snag grinder had earlier messed up her sear and tumbler. So I got blamed for having fixed the rifle that beat my Lady Team Mate for a short while, though she forgave me a day or so later. :redface: :wink:

Gus

 

[Billnpatti]

All nipples have a finite life expectancy. This life expectancy largely depends on who made the nipples, what they are made of and how hot of a load they are exposed to. Their life expectancy can also be deminished by improper cleaning that does not completely remove corrosive fouling and dry firing which damages nipples.

I have not seen any published material that would show the life expectancy of a particular brand or alloy of nipple under various conditions. For me, changing a nipple,other than replacing Italian factory nipples, is a rare event. I may not be the most interesting man in the world but when I change nipples, my choice is Ampco nipples.

 

[M. De Land]

I've been told that Beryllium-copper as well as platinum lined nipples are practically immortal.
Is this true?

 

[Jim C]

I don't know myself and at $60 a pop I doubt very seriously that I'll ever know.

 

[Zonie]

Nipple wear is caused mainly by the temperature and velocity of the gas and the presence of corrosive chemicals that result from the combustion of the burning powder.

Beryllium Copper is an exceptionally strong, tough alloy that is fairly resistant to hot gas corrosion. It has a melting temperature of 1590° to 1750° F.

As copper and copper alloys are a very good conductor of heat nipples made from them tend to dissipate the heat from the flame passing thru them.

This can give them a fairly long life but some of the iron/nickle/chrome stainless steels are almost as good.

Ampco 25 is an example of Beryllium Copper.

Platinum is the least reactive type of all metals.
That makes it strongly resistant to hot gas corrosion.

Platinum has a melting temperature of 3214°F, over 1400° F higher than the copper alloys.

This makes it one of the longest lasting materials used in nipples and it is suited for use on rifles which shoot very heavy slugs like Schuetzen rifles and other slug shooting target guns.

It's main shortcoming is its high price.

Because of the high price, "Platinum nipples" are made from steel with only the flash or vent hole actually made from Platinum.

 

[Jim C]

"Because of the high price, "Platinum nipples" are made from steel with only the flash or vent hole actually made from Platinum".

Yes, I've noticed that looking at the pictures of them, but doesn't the cone wear over time as well from repeated hammer strikes?

I shoot around 4 - 5 pounds of powder a yr in 2 rifles and one revolver, the revolver not so much. I believe if I were even a young man I could still buy enough stainless nipples for $60 to last me a lifetime.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I've been told that Beryllium-copper as well as platinum lined nipples are practically immortal.
Is this true?

The platinum reportedly will not burn out. But, I doubt they are any more resistant to mushrooming than others.