No Patch

[crockett]

Has anyone shot a RB without a patch(in a rifle) and how was the accuracy? How hard was it to load the ball? On a 54 caliber what size should the ball be? .54 or larger?

 

[Bountyhunter]

My Hawken has a .530 bore. I shoot .520 balls usually patched with ticking.

Several years ago, I missed a shot, shot over the bucks back, and he didnt know where the shot came from and was just milling around. I poured out about a hundred grains of powder in my hand and dumped it down the barrel, dropped in a ball, jammed the butt on the ground to seat the ball, and recapped and shot him and killed him. Guess it worked alright.

B

 

[skunkskinner]

I believe they call it a mountain man load. As long as you seet the ball good, it works well. It is harder to clean the barrel with all the lead left behind.

 

[jtmattison]

I would only do it for a quick follow-up shot and only if it was absolutely necessary. You risk the ball moving off the powder charge causing a barrel obstruction.

HD

 

[Bobby Cunningham]

I shoot a T/C .54 during various Situation Shoots,(These are Timed team Shoots 4 to 5 members Shooting Metal Knock down targets) the 1st shot is a Patched .535 ball with 55 Grs FFG. and the rest are shot with no patch and 55 Grs FFG, as for accuracy I hit the 8"X10" knockdowns out to 100+ Yrds 98% of the time and I have fired up to 30 rounds this way and never had a problem as long as I make sure the ball is seated good, the more you shoot the harder it is to load, as the BBl. becomes fouled here is the catch watch your Barrel heat if you are shooting 2 to 3 rounds a min. over any period of time, clean up is nasty

 

[Blivetmaker]

A good patched ball load reaches a sort of equilibrium after a few shots. The patch rams a portion of the fouling out of the bore and rifling down over the powder charge, allowing it to get blown out of the barrel by the next shot.
Sooner or later, the breech/chamber will become so badly fouled that cleaning will become necessary, but the area through which the projectile travels remains reasonably clean. In particularly dry climates, a non patched roundball load will crust up very quickly.

 

[TexiKan]

In a team "Post Shoot" where we had to cut a 2 x 4" in half, I shot without a patch after the first load. Like you said, the barrel fouled up quicker. Can't attest to the accuracy because of the other shooters involved, but would assume my accuracy was diminished. After all was said and done, I fired more shots than my team counterparts. My accuracy was not severely effected to the point that I would miss the 2 x 4.

TexiKan

 

[Blivetmaker]

That's the strongpoint of the frontloader. You can load 'em like you need 'em. I use an ultra tight patch/ball combo for target shooting at 100m. As such a load needs a mallet, short starter and a range rod to seat; it'd be useless for hunting.
Cutting stakes requires speed above all else. Why fiddle with a patch when the rifle won't foul out before the lumber breaks?

 

[The Baron]

I tried a few loads at the range with no patch. I only did it because I had a friend give me some cast balls and they were just a little too tight to load in my .62 smoothie, even with only 0.010" patches. The patchless loads seemed to work well and accuracy was quite sufficient for the off-hand, not too serious shooting we were doing. I would consider hunting with that load, but I'd probably use an overpowder card to hold the ball tight to the charge.

 

[Old Ironsights]

I have some .500 balls for patchless shooting. Don't use them much, as they are strictly for testing of "followups", but they work OK.

Hunting I use 360gr Traditional Minnies, so I don't patch anyway.

 

[faw3]

You would want a bore size ball for sure, its something Ive always wanted to try like 200grs of 2f and 2 patched balls that Fuller used in Alaska out of his org Hawken to make bears fall down. Fred :hatsoff:

 

[Slamfire]

I was watchin' "Sharp's Eagle" last night, and he was drillin' his fire team on loadin' without a patch. "Bite, pour, spit, tap, fire", were the orders, I guess they didn't need to prime. :rotf: Made 'em practice 'til they could get off 4 shots a minute. :bull:

 

[Old Ironsights]

Might not have to if their powder was fine enough.

If I shoot 4F in my flint, I don't have to prime, just pick the vent. Not even that if I don't mind a sshhh-boom. My pan fills completely with 4F if my frizzen is closed.

 

[paulvallandigham]

NEVER use 4Fg powder as a main charge. The factory tells you to use 4Fg powder only for priming powder. FFFg powder will create too much pressure in the chamber, and you will be causing microscopic cracks in the gun, and the gun will eventually give way and rupture. Use 3Fg or 2Fg powder for your rifle only.

 

[Bartek]

John Dillin in "Kentucky Rifle" wrote about excavation made on some island on the Tennessee River; he wrote the book in 1920s. Two graves (of Indian warriors) were explored - both men were killed by lead round balls. Both balls were found too. And both were shooted without patches and both from the same rifle
Dillin did give that affair as an argument. He wrote about balls without patches some more, but in this moment i don't remember. But his conclusion was - often riflemen had two kinds ob balls - balls for shooting with patches, and balls with a little larger caliber - needed, when they had to reload very fast (ambush, pursuit etc. ). And they had (in Dillin's opinion) moulds for both kindes of balls of course.

regards
Bartek :hatsoff:

 

[Old Ironsights]

Only did it as an experiment in part of my hold-pass testing, because some of the pre-sifted 3F powders would actually semi (or better) prime the pan if there was no vent pick in the vent. I was curious just how much would pass the vent liner with straight 4F.

The only thing shot out of the bore with a 4F "load" was a patched cotton-ball. :v

 

[Old Ironsights]

Only did it as an experiment in part of my hold-pass testing, because some of the pre-sifted 3F powders would actually semi (or better) prime the pan if there was no vent pick in the vent. I was curious just how much would pass the vent liner with straight 4F.

The only thing shot out of the bore with a 4F "load" was a patched cotton-ball. :v

I will repeat this post just to make it clear in case someone missed it:

I do not advocate, nor do I personally use, FFFF (4F) as a main charge in my Rifle(s)!

My comment was based on results of Hold/Pass testing and mentioned solely to explain how a particular set of "military drills" might have validly skipped the "Prime" step. In no way should it be considered an endorsement of using straight 4F in the bore.

 

[Bob Gular]

Awhile back I tried .562 round balls in my .54 green mountain barrel over a lubed felt wad. The idea was to get a bit more downrange energy from the heavier ball. It loaded easily enough with one or two taps of the loading mallet to engrave the rifling and velocity was just about the same as the .535 PRB but for whatever reason (guess Paul will tell us)my groups opened up to about twice normal size. Now am back to the tried, true, and traditional.