Today, for the first time, I loaded a ball without powder. I knew this was gonna happen sooner or later. Nevertheless I felt embarrassed. I could swear I had put the powder charge in. I aimed, pulled the trigger, heard the cap firing, but no bang. Fired another cap. Same thing. What made me feel embarrassed was that I couldn
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No powder
- Thread starter Aline
- Start date
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Don't worry about it at all...pretty sure it's safe to say it happens to everybody one time or another...usually from being distracted, not totally focused, etc. It's a shame the "range officer" wasn't sensitive enough to be a little more reasonable about the situation...I'd bet $1000 he/she has done it too!
Just yesterday I "double balled" a load...noticed it as soon as the tape on my ramrod stopped a half inch higher than it should have.
It is an awkward position to have to try to pull a load and one thing that works well to get additional leverage is to always have a good "T-Handle" with you...screw the ball puller into the ball/bullet, then screw the "T-Handle" onto the end of the ramrod, find some sort of place to "catch" the T behind, and then you can use all your strength holding onto the rifle and pulling the rifle away from the ramrod.
One time I noticed a shooter doing something that he said helped him avoid a misque...he would lay out all components for one shot right in front of himself on the bench: powder, wad, patch, ball...or...powder, sabot, bullet, etc...you get the idea...with all the components right there in view, he was less likely to forget one...not a bad idea actually.
Just yesterday I "double balled" a load...noticed it as soon as the tape on my ramrod stopped a half inch higher than it should have.
It is an awkward position to have to try to pull a load and one thing that works well to get additional leverage is to always have a good "T-Handle" with you...screw the ball puller into the ball/bullet, then screw the "T-Handle" onto the end of the ramrod, find some sort of place to "catch" the T behind, and then you can use all your strength holding onto the rifle and pulling the rifle away from the ramrod.
One time I noticed a shooter doing something that he said helped him avoid a misque...he would lay out all components for one shot right in front of himself on the bench: powder, wad, patch, ball...or...powder, sabot, bullet, etc...you get the idea...with all the components right there in view, he was less likely to forget one...not a bad idea actually.
Spot Shooter
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Aline,
RollingB taught me a trick that you can use pretty easily. If you forget the powder (not with two projectiles) remove your nipple and dump some powder into the hole, lean the gun in the direction of the chamber and tap it a few times and most of the powder will go down inside the channel. If you get enough powder in there the first time you will see the ball skip across the lawn when you shoot off a cap. If not do it again and then it'll come out.
p.s. - I don't think I could pull one myself either so I don't bother with it. The powder trick works really good though. And don't feel bad, I did it twice my first day out! LOL!
Spot
RollingB taught me a trick that you can use pretty easily. If you forget the powder (not with two projectiles) remove your nipple and dump some powder into the hole, lean the gun in the direction of the chamber and tap it a few times and most of the powder will go down inside the channel. If you get enough powder in there the first time you will see the ball skip across the lawn when you shoot off a cap. If not do it again and then it'll come out.
p.s. - I don't think I could pull one myself either so I don't bother with it. The powder trick works really good though. And don't feel bad, I did it twice my first day out! LOL!
Spot
This "Range Officer", sounds rather inexperienced at being one if you ask me... Sure, he is there to supervise safety and proceedure, but not to lecture... Can you imagine where our freindly sport would be today if all of us approached someone else's unfortunate situation with lectures afterward? Freindly advice is always welcome. How to "lectures" are not. I may rib folks about cleaning their muzzle loaders so they work properly, but it's all in good taste and we still go home freinds, and laugh about it at the next shoot. Don't let this discourage you. This sport needs all the good folks we can get.
Forgetting to put in the powder happens to every one of us. If it hasn't happened to some of you, it will, as certain as the sun rises in the East.
As Spot said, one way to expel the ball is to trickle in some powder between the nipple and the bore. If you do this and it doesn't fire the ball out, be sure to re-seat the ball back down to the bottom of the barrel before removing the nipple and trickleing more powder into the gun.
This method may not be practical with an In Line gun. I don't own one so I really don't know. You might try asking around to see if someone has a CO2 discharger.
The problem with the old Ball Screw is it does the same thing to the ball that the lead drywall plugs do when you screw their screw into them while putting up curtains. It expands the ball in the bore making it difficult to pull.
If your at a range, ask around. Someone may have a rod with a real handle on it which will fit your ball screw.
As Spot said, one way to expel the ball is to trickle in some powder between the nipple and the bore. If you do this and it doesn't fire the ball out, be sure to re-seat the ball back down to the bottom of the barrel before removing the nipple and trickleing more powder into the gun.
This method may not be practical with an In Line gun. I don't own one so I really don't know. You might try asking around to see if someone has a CO2 discharger.
The problem with the old Ball Screw is it does the same thing to the ball that the lead drywall plugs do when you screw their screw into them while putting up curtains. It expands the ball in the bore making it difficult to pull.
If your at a range, ask around. Someone may have a rod with a real handle on it which will fit your ball screw.
Aline: As the others have stated!sooner or later it will happen. I've done it several times over the years.The powder in the nipple hole has always worked for me. I pulled a few of my own and for others with the screw.it's a lot easier with the powder! If the ball only goes part way up bore,you can get a little more powder in the breech before reseating the ball.This system also works for ranrod tips with patches that come off the rod.As for the Range Officer! this person needs to have an attitude adjustment or be replaced.I weigh over 200 pounds and still had a tussle pulling the balls with a screw. Uless the range has a rule against it,use the powder method. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Aline
The Buckskinner name I have been christened with is "No Powder" It happenes to us all. Sometimes the situation is just a little more embarrassing than others and a little harder to live down, but done in fun. Sounds like you got a bad range officer or he was having a bad day. Don't let it get you down.
No Powder (and proud of it---well almost}
The Buckskinner name I have been christened with is "No Powder" It happenes to us all. Sometimes the situation is just a little more embarrassing than others and a little harder to live down, but done in fun. Sounds like you got a bad range officer or he was having a bad day. Don't let it get you down.
No Powder (and proud of it---well almost}
Aline:
Would that same range officer have lectured a male shooter for the same thing?
Just a thought...
I forgot to fill my flask once, went 10 miles to go hunting and 2 miles deep in the woods before I noticed it, my brothers laughed a bit as I shamed them into sharing their powder...
Would that same range officer have lectured a male shooter for the same thing?
Just a thought...
I forgot to fill my flask once, went 10 miles to go hunting and 2 miles deep in the woods before I noticed it, my brothers laughed a bit as I shamed them into sharing their powder...
steved
40 Cal.
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Hey Aline,
Sorry to hear about your experience with the irritable range officer. Hope he didn't ruin your fun that day. FYI - you may have missed them because they were posted on the "Flintlock" forum, but there were two recent threads related to CO2 Ball dischargers. Good info including product testimonials.
Sorry to hear about your experience with the irritable range officer. Hope he didn't ruin your fun that day. FYI - you may have missed them because they were posted on the "Flintlock" forum, but there were two recent threads related to CO2 Ball dischargers. Good info including product testimonials.
Aline, What you did was nothing compared to what some do.
Recently I had a guy bring me a TC Hawken with something stuck about half way down. He was using 500 gr. bullets.
He had loaded bullet, powder, bullet, powder, bullet, powder,bullet, powder. 4 bullets and 4 powder charges all stuck 1/2 way down. What was he thinking? Also recently pulled 27 pellets from a pellet rifle by welding a small screw to a piece of welding rod and pulling them just as you did.
Recently I had a guy bring me a TC Hawken with something stuck about half way down. He was using 500 gr. bullets.
He had loaded bullet, powder, bullet, powder, bullet, powder,bullet, powder. 4 bullets and 4 powder charges all stuck 1/2 way down. What was he thinking? Also recently pulled 27 pellets from a pellet rifle by welding a small screw to a piece of welding rod and pulling them just as you did.
Aline removing the nipple and putting small amounts of powder into the breech is the easy way to do that. I take a nipple pick and as I feed in the nipple hole, poke that pick into it and you will get more in there. It really does not take a lot to get a projectile out of the barrel.
Some words of caution, when you get ready to shoot the clearing charge; try and make sure there is no powder sticking to the threads when you screw the nipple back in, be sure and aim at something close to you so you can see whether the projectile actually does come out,and then check your barrel with your marked ram rod to make sure it did come out.
If the clearing charge did not push the projectile all the way out of the barrel, remove the nipple again and force more powder again into the breech. When you have 15 grains or so in there, be sure and "re-seat that projectile" back onto the powder charge. If you don't you can damage the barrel. Like Gordy said, it is hard to pull a projectile. Thank goodness it has never happened to me.
I have a rule, if I have any doubt about whether I put powder down the barrel, before I will seat the projectile, I will dump a charge on the ground. I have dumped a lot of powder, believe me.... :redface:
As for your experience with that range officer, it is his job to make sure your safe yes.. but he is not there to lecture on the workings of a muzzleloader. It sounds like you ran into one that was taking pleasure in how important he was. That is a shame. He had a perfect oppertunity to help you and laugh it off. You already knew what you did wrong. He did not have to rub your nose in it... Just remember, no one is perfect. Forgive him for his attitude... ::
Some words of caution, when you get ready to shoot the clearing charge; try and make sure there is no powder sticking to the threads when you screw the nipple back in, be sure and aim at something close to you so you can see whether the projectile actually does come out,and then check your barrel with your marked ram rod to make sure it did come out.
If the clearing charge did not push the projectile all the way out of the barrel, remove the nipple again and force more powder again into the breech. When you have 15 grains or so in there, be sure and "re-seat that projectile" back onto the powder charge. If you don't you can damage the barrel. Like Gordy said, it is hard to pull a projectile. Thank goodness it has never happened to me.
I have a rule, if I have any doubt about whether I put powder down the barrel, before I will seat the projectile, I will dump a charge on the ground. I have dumped a lot of powder, believe me.... :redface:
As for your experience with that range officer, it is his job to make sure your safe yes.. but he is not there to lecture on the workings of a muzzleloader. It sounds like you ran into one that was taking pleasure in how important he was. That is a shame. He had a perfect oppertunity to help you and laugh it off. You already knew what you did wrong. He did not have to rub your nose in it... Just remember, no one is perfect. Forgive him for his attitude... ::
Aline, further to what Deadeye said, the second Union volley at first Manassas was likened to a flight of arrows, so many ramrods were shot through the air...the 3rd volley was about half as loud as the first two, 'cause the Yankees couldn't re-load without their ramrods...there is also a story (can't remember source) of some of the guns dropped in the retrograde advance from there being examined, and found with up to seven powder and ball charges in them. Apparently, the shooter got nervous, and did everything in loading except put a cap on...and couldn't tell he hadn't fired, because of the noise around him...you'd think he'd have noticed the lack of recoil though...my point is, we've all done it, we've all done worse (a friend of mine is known in our club as "straight arrow" for his use of ramrods as projectiles during woodswalks)...the range officer was the kind of officious twit that we can all do without...my shooting last month was delayed for 20 minutes when two "so called" experts argued over the club rules...Hank
Guest
I saw this one happen! One very cold Ohio Jan. late muzzle loader season us fellas all gathered an hour before light to get on stand. Of course everyone loaded up the rifles the night before and put the guns in the garage to stay cold, except for one bright fella.
He wanted us all to wait so he could load up in the dark as no one had a flashlight and we took his lighter away from him! :shocking:
Anyway he tried to load the thing by feel with precharged loaders and thought he missed the muzzle and dumped powder on the ground, so he dumped another charge and thought he felt powder fall on his boot, soooo, brightboy dumps yet a third charge of 100 grains 2f, this time cupping his frozen hands around the crown of the muzzle to make sure this charge went down the tube.
Satisfied he was charged he rammed a maxi ball down on the barrel of his T/C Renegade which was fixed with a scope.
We were on stand until we near froze to death in the sub zero cold and decided we needed to go into town for a hot lunch. It was our practice to fire our guns empty and load with a fresh charge before hunting in the afternoon. Brightboy was the last to shoot at an old stump and when he touched off that T/C it was obvious all 3 charges made thier way downbore as there was one thunderous roar sending brighboy back on his arse, the rilfe in pieces parts went flying over his shoulder and landed a good ten feet behind him! :haha:
The barrel held together, but the scope mounts sheared off, and the stock broke at the wrist and fractures ran all the way to the butt plate!
Brightboy wasn't hurt all that bad but showed a dandy bruised shoulder a few days later.
He packed up the pieces, sent them to T/C and they REPLACED the entire rifle! ::
He wanted us all to wait so he could load up in the dark as no one had a flashlight and we took his lighter away from him! :shocking:
Anyway he tried to load the thing by feel with precharged loaders and thought he missed the muzzle and dumped powder on the ground, so he dumped another charge and thought he felt powder fall on his boot, soooo, brightboy dumps yet a third charge of 100 grains 2f, this time cupping his frozen hands around the crown of the muzzle to make sure this charge went down the tube.
Satisfied he was charged he rammed a maxi ball down on the barrel of his T/C Renegade which was fixed with a scope.
We were on stand until we near froze to death in the sub zero cold and decided we needed to go into town for a hot lunch. It was our practice to fire our guns empty and load with a fresh charge before hunting in the afternoon. Brightboy was the last to shoot at an old stump and when he touched off that T/C it was obvious all 3 charges made thier way downbore as there was one thunderous roar sending brighboy back on his arse, the rilfe in pieces parts went flying over his shoulder and landed a good ten feet behind him! :haha:
The barrel held together, but the scope mounts sheared off, and the stock broke at the wrist and fractures ran all the way to the butt plate!
Brightboy wasn't hurt all that bad but showed a dandy bruised shoulder a few days later.
He packed up the pieces, sent them to T/C and they REPLACED the entire rifle! ::
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well Welcome to the club! 
I bet it will be awhile before you do that again...its part of the fun!
I bet it will be awhile before you do that again...its part of the fun!Guest
Hell, I've D...balled three times in one day, this is the first time I admitted it.
Guest
Aline... When it comes to dry ballin' I'm probably the champ. I been shootin' smoke poles since the early 70's and still do it from time to time. And I'd be willin' ta bet my best hawk that RO has done it too. When it comes ta dry ballin' a front stuffer theys three kinds. Those that has, those that's gonna and those that lies about doin' it. :: ::
Guest
When I go out target shooting with muzzleloaders I usually bring two or three guns with me, my GPR rifle the matching pistol and my Ruger old army. I shoot each one intern then reload all of them at one time I use a brass flask the pistol and revolver and I have a large powder horn for the rifle there's never been a problem with confusing where I get my powder from, its just forgetting to get the powder.
