Non-ball smoothbore projectiles?

[CoyoteJoe]

I wonder if anyone has experience with projectiles other than balls from a smoothbore. The first sabot shotgun slugs by BRI, later Winchester, claimed good accuracy from smoothbores. They were shaped like crossbow bolts which also were very accurate according to arms historians. They claimed that the peculiar wasp-waist shape made them stable without any need for rotation. It would seem easy enough to attach a lead nose to a turned wooden dowel.
Has anyone tried slugs other than balls?-- :hmm:

 

[riarcher]

Hmmm, Possibly why folks used to use slugs in their shotguns, then rifled slugs, etc.?

 

[benvenuto]

theres a thread in the pre-flint area about musket-arrows, sprites, spryngels, whatever you want to call them

they were quite popular up till the 1550's, they must have worked reasonably well

hell, they even resurected the idea for tank projectiles so...

 

[jim gray]

I think an early version of the slug developed by Brenneke had a felt wad permanently attached to its base to stabilize it in flight. I think this goes back to BP cartridges at least if not smoothbore MLs.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Certainly do, but not from muzzleloaders. For 20 some years that's what I had to deer hunt with in regular gun season. My Ithaca M37 was easily more accurate than a round ball (comparing Bess to pump shotgun w/sights but smoothbore).

My 11-87 with Hastings Paradox rifling and Williams sights is more arrurate with plain old Remington slugs than many modern rifles with similar sights. I've taken deer cleanly well past 100 yards with that gun.

 

[rudy parnell]

I've got a Remington 870 fully rifled slug gun and shoot only 2&3/4" old timey one ounze lead slugs. I bought all I could afford for 2$ a box. Never drop one out of an 8" pistol bull at 100yds. I shoot the 375gr T/C Maxi-ball out of a Heavy Barreled T/C Renegade. It will drop about 3" from 100yds to 150yds. with 100gr. of Pyrodex as fast as you can fire it. No such thing as hot and cold bullet. By the way all the shots are inside that 8" bull. I read in Charles Hanson's book that the favorite load for the PLAINS was 217gr ball and 205gr of powder " to drop a buffalo or a warrior on his death dance" out to 250yds. Anybody on the Forum ever loaded up 200gr. of powder and a PBR ? Sounds like fun. :hmm: adios!

 

[musketman]

During the Civil War they used large minieballs (oxymoron alert) in their muskets...

Here is a .69 caliber one...

Below is a Confederate 12 guage slug...

This is a .70 caliber Austrian Minie...

Though they were intended for rifled muskets, there are many found that were fired from smoothbores, at close range the smoothbore was king...

 

[rudy parnell]

Anybody ever loaded 200gr of powder[ behind OR is that infront] of an equal weighted projectile ? If this ain't a TABOO! ...I'd sure like to hear from you on this ...your generalship. Uh...well even if it is a bad thing, Sir could you help by commenting further on this delicate matter. Many thanks and adios :master:

 

[musketman]

Anybody ever loaded 200gr of powder[ behind OR is that infront] of an equal weighted projectile ?

If it's a 1:1 ratio the I should be able to load 535 grains of powder to go with the weight of the .735 roundball...

But that's not the case, I would advise not using over the recommended suggested load by the gun's maker...

Val Forgett Sr. (founder of Navy Arms) pushed a .58 caliber, 610 grain minieball with 200 grains of FFFg in his "Hawken" style rifle, but this was an extream example...

 

[Rebel]

I loaded 180 grs of Pyrodex Rs uneder a .490 rd ball in an old CVA Mt. rifle i had. Fired a couple of shots with that load, and didn't see that it caused any problems except for a bit more recoil. We were trying to shoot at a target 200+ yds away. Came close with that load. Rifle was sighted in at 50 yds with 60 grs of the same powder. Must say, it was nicer to shoot with the 60 gr load. ::

 

[big bore 75]

I made the mistake of loading my Brown Bess one day and trying to help a guy figuar out what was wrong with his rifle and instead of leaving a indicator on the muzzle like I normally do I loaded a 180 grain charge down her and loaded the ball primed her and just as the flint hit the frizzen and flashed I said oh s#$^, and instantly had a hurting shoulder I did hit waht I was amming at but leason learned the experiance was unplesant but I know the barrel has been proofed. bb75

 

[rudy parnell]

Well, I am sure that this subject has been addressed by more capable minds than I, but I was just wondering. How did they do it! I read that the barrel metal was softer in the HAWKIN and there lie the secret of its accuracy over all other rifles. But, maybe the loads that the fellars were using in them 10 and 11 pound Plains Rifles were not equal in the components that we have at our disposal? For example, it stands to reason that if the ball that was loaded was smaller, even if the weight was the same, it would not generate the chamber pressures that we can get from more precise ball and patch combinations ? Also, is it possible or even true that the powder was not equivalent? For example, the old book [Mr. Hanson's, Plains Rifles] states, that it was 205 grains of powder pushing a 217 grain ball to stop a Warrior doing his death dance at 250 yards. Now that is a whole lot of WAKE UP AMERICA! Let's say the load is right and the yardage measure is right. Or, lets say that the load is right and the yardage measure is wrong? Or, lets say that the load is off and the yardage is less. About anyway you look at it, I'm saying ,if them rifles were not equiped with a veneer sight or a creedmore, which they weren't ,then that is, practically," the whole state of Kentucky you got to hold over"!. Appreciate any feed back! Thanks :crackup:

 

[Rebel]

Well, i would have to ask the wife how they did it back then, as i wasn't there myself. :: Ouch, ouch, sorry honey, didn't see ya standin' behind me. :crackup: :kid: All i know for certain is that I put that much powder in MY gun and it didn't harm a thing. I also one time filled the 10" barrel of a CVA Colonial pistol with powder(have no idea how many grains) until there was just room to seat a .440 rd ball with about 1" of barrel left. When i touched that off it made a .44 mag. feel pretty tame. Only thing it did to the gun was bend the pin that held the barrel to the stock. I straightened the pin out, and used it for a long time after that. That gun also threw a wicked pattern to about 15 feet with powder a square of tissue paper, about 1oz of shot and an other square of tissue paper. I personally don't feel you can overload a MLer barrel with Black Powder to make it unsafe. I think the only way you are going to blow up a barrel is if you have an obstruction in the barrel, use Smokeless powder, or a short started ball, and even then i feel most of the pressure would be released out the nipple or vent hole. I am NOT reccomending anyone try any of these to find out, only my opinion. I know that in my CVA rifle i could use 180 grs of powder, but your rifle may be different.

 

[jim gray]

I accidentally shot my Navy Arms SxS 12 gauge with 200 grains of powder and a 492 grain roundball. I didn't release what I had done until I fired the other barrel and discovered there was no powder in it. The clincher was when I got out of the shower and saw the bruise in the mirror.

 

[Rebel]

Yea, i shot my Navy Arms double yesterday with rd balls. I am hoping that Musketman gets the pic of the target and gun up on the post soon. Even with 100 grs of powder and a rd ball it will get your attention off a bench. ::

 

[musketman]

Even with 100 grs of powder and a rd ball it will get your attention off a bench.

Done that, with a brass butt plate on the gun to boot...