Non-toxic finishes (replacing boiled linseed oil)?

[LFC]

I've been a great fan of boiled linseed oil as a wood finish for some years. Here in the Arizona desert, it's important to keep wood from drying out and cracking--and I love both the looks and the traditional simplicity of linseed oil.

I know well enough that regular "un-boiled" linseed oil takes ages and ages to dry--hence the use of "boiled" linseed oil, which will go from liquid to dry in a couple of days. I also know that a lot of the modern "boiled" linseed oil never actually gets boiled, but instead is converted to "boiled" status by the addition of chemicals.

I have only recently learned that some of the things often added to linseed oil in making it faster-drying are chemicals containing the toxic metals cadmium, arsenic, and lead. Cadmium, and I think arsenic, have been implicated in causing cancer. (Cadmium, in particular, I recall supposedly can be a common factor in testicular cancer. :shocked2 (And while it's good to keep one's powder dry, and to have plenty of greased patches available, one's PRB load is just missing something without that last ingredient . . . . :wink

So--anyone got any bright ideas about other things to use as stock finishes? I'm not sure exactly what's involved in turning raw food-grade flax oil into boiled linseed oil, but from a quick look at the internet I get the feeling that it may have to be kept at a boil for three hours, that it has a tendency to foam over the rim of the container and catch everything on fire, etc. I'd have a hard time keeping anything boiling at a low level outdoors for three hours, and there is no way I'd try that indoors. Does it work if you just bring it to a boil, but don't keep it there for hours?

Alternatively, there may be other oils that would work, would dry well, and don't include arsenic/cadmium/lead-based "drying" compounds. But I'm not sure. Tung oil may or may not include such compounds; there may be other ideas out there.

Suggestions?

Thanks, gang!

 

[Stophel]

For totally non toxic, you can get a GOOD grade of cold-pressed linseed oil from Kremer (Sinopia), or you can use a Tried and True finish (available from Woodcraft...it's on their website, but never in their catalogs). The Tried and True "varnish oil" is totally non toxic, and is made only with pure linseed oil and rosin. Now, it MUST be applied in EXTREMELY light coats, and yes, each coat MUST be put in the sun to dry for at least a day, but, what else are you doing? :wink:

It actually works pretty well, and once it is DRY, it will be totally unaffected by water. Water will still pass (slowly) through it, but it won't hurt the finish at all. It will not run off in the rain or anything.

You can also fill the grain with shellac before using an oil varnish to help cut down on the amount of oil you have to use. Shellac is utterly non toxic too...well, after the alcohol has evaporated anyway. :grin:

The varnish I make for myself is boiled linseed oil that I run at a slow, rolling boil in a deep fryer machine for maybe a couple of hours (if I can stand to wait that long...). I add lead carbonate (the drying agent), and sometimes add a bit of burnt Umber (for the Manganese content...also a drying agent). Rosin and sometimes Mastic for the resins.

 

[LFC]

Thanks, Stophel! Question about boiling one's own oil: does the boiling help dry the oil, if one does not use the drying compounds that you use?

Also, I see that the Woodcraft "tried & true" finishes include a couple of different types: "original wood finish" and "varnish oil". What can you tell me about the difference between the two? And will they, indeed, actually dry after a day or two in the sun?

 

[Stophel]

Boiling will help for drying, but I don't really know how much. What really makes the difference is the lead carbonate!

YES, the Tried and True will dry...IF you put it on THIN!!! I can't emphasize that enough! Even when using "real" boiled linseed oil varnish with the lead carbonate drier, you absolutely must put it on thin and make sure it is truly dry before applying anymore. No flooding and soaking!!!

The Tried and True Varnish oil works fine. I think that perhaps it's a bit soft for a top coat varnish, but it's OK. It could stand to have some more rosin added to harden it up a bit. If you're doing just an "in-the-wood" oil finish, that don't matter.

I did this gun fairly recently using the Tried and True varnish oil. At the time, I was still experimenting with my own varnish, and I didn't have any useable stuff ready, so I gave this stuff a try, and found it to be OK.
[url] www.photobucket.com/albums/v326/Fatdutchman/Flintlocks/1750sGermanAmerican[/url]

The original finish, or whatever they call it, is a linseed oil mixed with beeswax. Fine for putting on your wooden bowls and spoons, but I would probably not want it on a gunstock. In fact, I have some, and put it on my wooden bowls and spoons! :wink:

When boiling my own oil, I have found that there is a certain point in the boiling where the finished product turns from the smooth, nice stuff, to being EXTREMELY thick, which must be heavily thinned down with turpentine to put on (it dries rather faster, but is harder to fool with). Problem is, I haven't figured out exactly where that point is! I'd like to leave it smooth and thinner, so it goes on nicely and levels out well, even if it does take longer to dry.

 

[Mountainman56]

I have been using pure tung oil for many years on all my rifle stocks. Dries in 24hrs and has a beautiful finish. Put the 1st coat on and let it dry then wet sand the following coats with ever finer wet/dry paper till you get your desired finish.

 

[LFC]

Oh--just saw this after asking questions (which this answers) in reply to your private topic post. Sorry to ask there what you'd already answered here. 24 hour drying? Excellent!

 

[Scota4570]

"I'm not sure exactly what's involved in turning raw food-grade flax oil into boiled linseed oil,"

Heat the oil and add white lead.

Many old stocks were varnished....many. Why not use spar varnish?

 

[Stophel]

The original question was to "non toxic" finishes. You can actually drink (pure) linseed[url] oil...in[/url] fact, it's good for you, though I don't think I'm up to it...

Many people have a severe allergic reaction to tung oil. Test out a drop or two on your skin to see if it raises a blister or something before you go slathering it on a stock, only to have it eat you up later!

A good spar varnish (NOT "spar urethane") would be as good a finish as any, practically speaking, but I don't like how modern varnishes behave. They get tacky immediately, so there's no "working time" and they don't level out well. But, if using it as an in-the-wood oil type finish alone, that doesn't make so much difference.

Certainly can't speak to the toxicity of modern varnishes! :shocked2:

 

[TANSTAAFL]

The best I have found is "Howard Feed-N-Wax" it can be applied periodically with no significant build up. You can pick it up at Home Depot, (may have to search for it in the finish dept) little pricey, but worth it.

I live over on the Colorado River near Bullhead City, never gets hot and dry here. :bull: :wink:
[url] http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm[/url]


Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H.L. Mencken

 

[LFC]

While we're on the subject, what's the best way to remove maybe-toxic linseed oil from something that's been soaked in it? (I'm thinking of at least trying to diminish the amount of whatever toxic stuff gets on hands from use, etc., maybe by soaking in some kind of solvent to wash out what I can, then a little sanding, followed by re-oiling with some less-toxic oil.) What say ye?

 

[Zonie]

I say that when the oil has dried the tiny amount of toxic materials left on the stock is too small to be concerned about.

Even the lead that might be in it is almost non existent when compared with the "lead house paint" some folks are so concerned with.
That house paint used white lead as one of its main ingredients to provide a color base so it's lead content is rather high.
Even with this high content one should notice that the only persons who are "at risk" are children who eat the paint flakes that have fallen off of the walls.
zonie

 

[Stophel]

You'll die of lead poisoning from handling and casting lead balls LONG before you will from handling varnish with a miniscule amount of white lead in it...and that'll never happen anyway.

 

[LFC]

Your advice doesn't sound unreasonable. I went to the woodworkers' supply shop over the weekend, and was advised to use some kind of super finish stripper to remove the old linseed oil. Looked at the warning labels and the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for the stripping compound, and quickly concluded that I'd much more likely kill my family off with the stripping compound than with anything there might be in the linseed oil. If anyone does know of any good solvent for dried linseed oil, I'm still happy to hear of it--but I'm a little less concerned than I was.

 

[LFC]

Just for some background, a late-night pregnancy test last week revealed that Baby #5 is under construction. :grin: :hmm: :grin: So--lots of countervailing pressures to keep things fairly non-toxic around the house, and yet keep an eye out for inexpensive ways to have fun with the kids and teach them basic life skills and self-reliance. I'm happy to report that the 4 elder ones are fascinated by muzzleloaders. I expect that this is going to be a fun and productive hobby for all concerned.

 

[bioprof]

Denatured alcohol is a pretty good solvent for removing oil-based finishes off of the surface of wood. It does have methanol added though so that it can't be ingested. If you are concerned about the additives, I suppose you could use Everclear.

Linseed oil soaks into the wood though, so you might have to heat it to draw the oil out of the wood.

There's probably more toxic compounds in the bottled water that people drink than in the linseed oil; IMHO.

 

[Stophel]

If Zip Strip will kill ya, I'd be dead years ago. And by the way, DON'T try to heat it!!!!! Trust me.

Alcohol won't touch linseed oil once it's dried. It's pretty tough stuff.

If you have linseed oil on the stock already, and it's dry, leave it be. If you don't think it's dry, put it out in the sun for a few days to get it that way. :wink:

 

[LFC]

My linseed oil worries have more to do with the knife and tomahawk handles I've been soaking in it. Happily, I found out about some of the linseed-oil problems before using it on a gunstock.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Try the STrip Eaze, first, because it is non-toxic. If that does not work, than buy some acetone at the paint store, and use it OUTSIDE staying upwind of it, to take the linseed oil off. I have also seen Lead Solvent( Hoppes #9) take Linseed oil off, when you don't want it removed! Alcohol is a solvent, and will soften the linseed oil that is dried, if left on the stock long enough. Because of fast evaporation, that usually means putting rags on the stock soaked in alcohol after washing the stock with alcohol, with the rage keeping the alcohol on the stock wet to do its job. There has to be a better way!

I Stripped years of linseed oil off a gunstock that had been in the armory at Ft. Leonard Wood for many years, using a combination of solvents, and sand paper. I also had to steam out dents, and dinks, and small gouges. The steaming did the most to lift the dirty linseed oil out of the wood, where it was easily removed with scrapers or sand paper. I was able to stain the wood, and then hand rubbed a finish of oil on the stock that made it look better than new. It was a target rifle, so I left the finish glossy.

 

[Stophel]

I think "CitriStrip" is the non toxic stuff you want (to try) to use. I've never used it, so have no idea how effective it is or isn't. My Strypeze is made of alcohol and acetone and all kinds of other stuff like that.

 

[LFC]

The stripping solution they were recommending at the woodworking supply store had as a roughly-25% ingredient something called methylene chloride, which the MSDS indicated was so toxic and carcinogenic that after I read it, I figured I'd best avoid it if possible. Just got the MSDS from Klean-Strip for their boiled linseed oil, and it doesn't indicate the existence of any hazardous anything except for the linseed oil itself. Hmm.