non turn off Queen Anne Pistols ?

[gof]

Here is a question. Pedersoli makes a Queen Anne pistol kit... here is an example

Most of the original Queen Annes in this style seem to be the turn off barrel type.

Does anyone know if "they" made this style of pistol with a non-turn off barrel?

And if they did, how about during the 1690-1730 time frame?

Thanks

Gof[url] www.gentlemenoffortune.com[/url]

 

[gof]

almost 20 views and no comments?

Surely there is some speculation at least


GoF

 

[tg]

I am not certain just what if anything an "original" Queen Ann pistol was... pistols of this time period were made with standard breeches Lenks work shows many of French/Leige origin, I have studied the long guns of this period but have little knowledge of the pistols, perhaps Henri or Okwaho may chime in.Generaly speaking I would suspect a Pedersoli kit would be somewhat less than historical accurate.

 

[Erzulis boat]

Man , Queen Anne got a lot of mileage out of 12 years (or was it 14?).
I just got into muzzleloaders, so my library is not that extensive, but from my limited books, the appear to be screw barrels with a rather ugly (at least to me) frame.
Evidently, the screw barrel is actually worth something mechanically, the result is an effective gas seal at least (for the projectile).
I count 14 examples with my cursory "flip through", and they all appear to be similar in the screw barrel department.
But since I suspect the tagging of everything within a considerable span as "Queen Anne" (I do not know all that constitutes this moniker).
Someone will post tomorrow, that knows perhaps.

 

[tg]

I think that the screw in barrels came into vogue about the time of the Queen Ann period thus the name is associated with any early screw barrel pistol much like the "Hawken" is any 1835-1850 heavy half stock... standard barrel pistols were made before during and after, the screw type were probably civilian arms, short, conceilable, stylish, once again I am not a "pistol" person so I will bow out till a real one shows up.....

 

[twobirds]

almost 20 views and no comments?

Surely there is some speculation at least


GoF

Well, GoF, my guess is we've all been wondering the same thing. I know I have! :haha:

I have been known to speculate on a few things of which I am totally ignorant, but I don't think I can pull this one off.

 

Remember the cars from the 50's? They had a flair, a style, but they were not all the same. It was an identifiable era.

Queen Annes are similar.

Screw barrel pistols continued into the 19th century, but they were not all Queen Anne guns, and all Queen Annes were not screw barrels.

 

[Erzulis boat]

I did some more checking last night, and ran into images of screw barrel carbines (not labeled "Queen Anne" of course, but very interesting nevertheless).
The screw barrel pistol would probably have to be scratch built to get it right. With proper tools it would not be bad at all.
The locks appear to have a "belly" so to speak (wraparound it looks), and the images depict a curvature.
Of course, there is no ramrod provision, but I wonder if some did not require a "key" or wrench.
I would like to see the "off" side, as all my images only show the lockside.

 

[WRussell]

Queen Annes are a favorite of mine, so I'll pitch in my 2 cents.

The term unfortunately is used for several totally different designs.

My preference is that it be used for one design that is unique and deserves a name of its own - and that is the "integral-breech lock" with external cock. In other words, the breech (and sometimes the whole barrel, if not a "turn-off" barrel), is made in one forging with the lock plate and the trigger plate.

This results in a three sided affair - bottom, right side, and front, which is the breech. This soon evolved into the "boxlock", which puts the cock in one piece with the tumbler and brings it out the top of the box - right in the sight line, making it strictly close range gun.

The Queen Anne is one of the most graceful muzzle loader designs. The design Pedersoli and others call a Queen Anne is just a normal side lock with the front end of the stock cut off to allow using a wrench to remove the barrel.

The Queen Anne was promoted as a cavalry weapon at first, as the turn-off barrel design gets a lot of power out of the powder (they were still shooting at guys in armor when the design first appeared), and it also prevents the ball from jostling loose when pounding along on horseback. Alas, it didn't work out, as it was too cumbersome to load - if there wasn't some form of restrainer, the barrel could be dropped, after which you might as well throw the rest of it at the guy with the pike.

They must have been expensive to make because of the complicated forging, and most are of high quality to appeal to the gents who had enough cash to not quibble about the price.

OK, I'm running out of steam - if you want more, pick up a copy of John Burgoyne's lovely little book "The Queen Anne Pistol".[url] http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=burgoyne&y=16&tn=queen+anne&x=50[/url]

Blackley[url] http://www.blackleyandson.com/[/url]
and The Rifle Shoppe both make kits.

I've heard that Pedersoli's "Queen Anne's" with turn off barrels had problems with the barrel coming unscrewed.

The time frame you cite is right on for the "integral-breech lock" Queen Anne. The design apparently started some years earlier (there was at least one made with the "English Lock" horizontal sear design). The Mortimers made some in the early 1800's, so you don't have to cut off at 1730.

Here are a couple of views of one of mine, including a view of the "other" side.

 

[gof]

Maybe I didn't phrase my question quite right.

Let me set the stage. I am a re-enactor who is interested in authenticity.

So my question is: Would the Pedersoli Queen Anne pistol be PC/AUthentic for 1690-1725, beings that it is not a turn off barrel replica?

The QA book is on my list, but I don't have it yet. I was hoping that the style (which i think is beautiful) would have been copied or made in a non-turn off style (thus justifying the Pedersoli replica).

Thanks... in advance

GoF

 

[hawkeye2]

The simple answer is no. The features and styling of this pistol put it about 50 years past your time period.

 

[Erzulis boat]

I stand corrected, that pistol is superb, I just needed to see a better image.

It really has a character all it's own, doesn't it?

The images I have depict rather too short barreled pistols with a definitely ungainly look. The book is by George, I believe.

A very elegant pistol, to be sure. :thumbsup: