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C Broad Arrow
32 Cal.
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Tappered
The only thing wrong with what the search feature on the forum is it usually comes up with hundreds if not thousands of posts containing the key word.
Here's a link to a post about swamped barrels that should help you
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/288500/post/1393647/fromsearch/1/
Here's a link to a post about swamped barrels that should help you
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/288500/post/1393647/fromsearch/1/
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Len Graves
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I think the term is tapered and flaired. The barrel is tapered from the breech to about 3/4 or 2/3 of the length and then flairs out again to almost but not quite to the original breech dimension at the muzzle. Kind of like if you're looking down it it sags a bit. Some say its for weight removal and distribution, balance, and some say it's just for looks or style. Might be a bit of both. I don't know where the term "swamped" came from but now it's part of our Insider muzzle loading language right up there with "dry ball, klatch, short start and other curse words.
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Why do they call it swamped?
Anyone know?
Sounds more like a backwoods way to brown the barrel.
Anyone know?
Sounds more like a backwoods way to brown the barrel.
Goggle Rice Barrel Company and go to their web site.
Go to Barrels & Specifications & look at the swamped barrels & straight barrels.
You can see the differences in the contours of dif. swamped barrels.
Basically a swamped barrel removes some of the center barrel weight, back to the rear & puts more weight on the shoulders & back of the shooter, rather than on the forearm & it being more muzzle heavy.
First time I shot a rifle with a swamped barrel, I thought I had went to ML heaven....... :shocked2: I just love them, nothing like them... :idunno: They are absolutely GREAT !!
Keith Lisle
Go to Barrels & Specifications & look at the swamped barrels & straight barrels.
You can see the differences in the contours of dif. swamped barrels.
Basically a swamped barrel removes some of the center barrel weight, back to the rear & puts more weight on the shoulders & back of the shooter, rather than on the forearm & it being more muzzle heavy.
First time I shot a rifle with a swamped barrel, I thought I had went to ML heaven....... :shocked2: I just love them, nothing like them... :idunno: They are absolutely GREAT !!
Keith Lisle
Not really but if you want my guess it would go like this.fools sulphur said:
Ever seen a low lying swampy area when the water is low?
There is a gentle bend as the bottom rises from the lowest areas up to the shores that always stay above water. Looks almost like a "swamped" barrel! High on both sides and low in the middle.
As for the flair at the muzzle, when finishing up a hand forged and welded barrel it was not uncommon for them to heat the muzzle end to welding heat and drive it straight into the anvil.
This "upset" the material, improving the weld joint and swelling the size of the muzzle in the process.
I believe the improved weld and added thickness at the muzzle made the likelihood of the area bursting when the gun fired much less likely.
At least these are my theories and I'm gonna stick to um. :grin:
Col. Batguano
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That's a good description. The other thing the "swamp" gives you is an ability to keep the front sights low profile.
On cannons of that relative time period they would often burst at the muzzle, so on many there is a swell and increased barrel diameter witha noticeable muzzle swell. I'm not versed enough in the physics of a discharge to know exactly what physics are going on just as a ball leaves the muzzle, but it seems to me that just as a round ball is partially out the bore there is a brief instant where the gas is escaping around the edge and actually venting forward, increasing or at least prolonging the period where there is outward pressure on the muzzle, from the period it passes the ogive of the curve to the time the bottom of the ball leaves. This is not the case with a flat-bottomed bullet. It may be wrong, but it's an hypothesis anyway.
On cannons of that relative time period they would often burst at the muzzle, so on many there is a swell and increased barrel diameter witha noticeable muzzle swell. I'm not versed enough in the physics of a discharge to know exactly what physics are going on just as a ball leaves the muzzle, but it seems to me that just as a round ball is partially out the bore there is a brief instant where the gas is escaping around the edge and actually venting forward, increasing or at least prolonging the period where there is outward pressure on the muzzle, from the period it passes the ogive of the curve to the time the bottom of the ball leaves. This is not the case with a flat-bottomed bullet. It may be wrong, but it's an hypothesis anyway.
galamb
58 Cal.
Swamped is the "verb" describing the "barrel".
(description of the verb) -
"to plunge or cause to sink in, or as if in a swamp"
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reason 2 - "tapered and flared" takes too long to say :rotf:
(description of the verb) -
"to plunge or cause to sink in, or as if in a swamp"
------------------
reason 2 - "tapered and flared" takes too long to say :rotf:
matt denison
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"I believe the improved weld and added thickness at the muzzle made the likelihood of the area bursting when the gun fired much less likely."
Um, I think the flare at the muzzle has more to do with getting the front sight back up the same height as the rear sight.
Um, I think the flare at the muzzle has more to do with getting the front sight back up the same height as the rear sight.
don hepler
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High on each end and low in the middle, like a "swamp" I guess.
That's just a crazy guess, maybe someone really knows.
Oops, Galamb, has already answered that. I guess I wasn't far off.
That's just a crazy guess, maybe someone really knows.
Oops, Galamb, has already answered that. I guess I wasn't far off.
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From an engineering perspective, the muzzle can be a weaker spot.
I am unsure of the typical pressure curve of blackpowder arms. However, their relative pressure at the end of the ball travel is likely higher than a faster burning modern smokeless powder.
The stress from pressure can dissipate in all directions except in spots where you run out of space. Also, the sharper the edge, the higher the stress concentration. Small hole, cracks, or abrupt changes like the sharp edge of a rifling bore can cause local stress to easily be 3-4 time higher than in an simple smooth geometric device, like versus a plain undrilled pipe.
Also, cannonballs far as I knew were common cast iron. Smaller item mass produced likely cooled much faster, making a harder material. This likely produced stratches which would cause even more stress risers.
I am unsure of the typical pressure curve of blackpowder arms. However, their relative pressure at the end of the ball travel is likely higher than a faster burning modern smokeless powder.
The stress from pressure can dissipate in all directions except in spots where you run out of space. Also, the sharper the edge, the higher the stress concentration. Small hole, cracks, or abrupt changes like the sharp edge of a rifling bore can cause local stress to easily be 3-4 time higher than in an simple smooth geometric device, like versus a plain undrilled pipe.
Also, cannonballs far as I knew were common cast iron. Smaller item mass produced likely cooled much faster, making a harder material. This likely produced stratches which would cause even more stress risers.
When the gun fires the internal pressure is trying to expand the barrel as well as push the ball forward and the breech plug aft.
As the barrel wall at and behind the ball starts to expand the barrel wall material just ahead of the ball is helping the material that's right at the ball resist the expansion.
When the ball gets almost to the muzzle there isn't any material to speak of ahead of it to help support the barrel wall just behind the ball so the stress in the material is higher than it would be if there was some material ahead of the ball.
This makes the area more likely to fail.
By increasing the barrel wall in this area it is stronger and more likely to resist the stress from the internal pressure at the muzzle.
As the barrel wall at and behind the ball starts to expand the barrel wall material just ahead of the ball is helping the material that's right at the ball resist the expansion.
When the ball gets almost to the muzzle there isn't any material to speak of ahead of it to help support the barrel wall just behind the ball so the stress in the material is higher than it would be if there was some material ahead of the ball.
This makes the area more likely to fail.
By increasing the barrel wall in this area it is stronger and more likely to resist the stress from the internal pressure at the muzzle.
Zonie.... Zonie.... Zonie.... :idunno: I can't believe you said that :shocked2: I have been waiting all night for you to post with a whole page of facts & figures &
formulas & pressure curves & barrel wall flexibility vs. steel type, etc. :idunno: and That ....
is what you have to say ????? :idunno: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
I can't believe you let me down like that....... :shake: :slap:
Keith Lisle
For what it's worth, I remember reading in an old 1930 - 1940'ish Rifleman Mag many years ago that the "swamped" barrel feature was the natural outcome of the grinding process. The round finished barrels were put into a carriage device that hung over the 5-8 foot round water wheel, The carriage was moved back and forth over the wheel until a flat was ground. The barrel was then turned to position the barrel for the next grinding operation. The carriage was hung from 2 points many feet above the wheel like a double pendulum.
The process of swinging the carriage caused the carriage to lift slightly at the end of each grinding stroke and to be closer to the wheel at the middle of the stroke. Think of one of those 2 children swings that maintain level as they move back and forth. After grinding all 8 flats the barrel was thinner in the middle.
No one could hand grind barrel flats and maintain the straight line edges without using some type of holding device. Also the time to grind the flats had to be somewhat automatic in that the barrel was placed in the device and left until the flat was ground and then turned to the next flat.
I don't have the mag anymore. All my old copies were given to a library many years ago and I don't keep copies anymore. Anyway just something I remember reading.
The process of swinging the carriage caused the carriage to lift slightly at the end of each grinding stroke and to be closer to the wheel at the middle of the stroke. Think of one of those 2 children swings that maintain level as they move back and forth. After grinding all 8 flats the barrel was thinner in the middle.
No one could hand grind barrel flats and maintain the straight line edges without using some type of holding device. Also the time to grind the flats had to be somewhat automatic in that the barrel was placed in the device and left until the flat was ground and then turned to the next flat.
I don't have the mag anymore. All my old copies were given to a library many years ago and I don't keep copies anymore. Anyway just something I remember reading.
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