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northwest trade musket decisions

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randyt

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Been thinking of picking up a northwest trade musket as my first flintlock. I'm not a reenactor, but want one for my own use and am a history buff.
I've searched the forum for ideas and whatnot. I'm am not concerned about resale value. Once I buy a gun it is rarely ever sold or traded.

I have thought about the India made guns. Not sure what to think. I don't mind tweaking something. Don't really care for import marks and such. Thought about kits from TOW, Pecatonia, Clay Smith, Caywood, etc. Smith and Caywood doesn't really have a NW kit. I don't mind putting something together, have made a couple scratch built percussions back when I was young.
Have been looking at the for sale part of the forum several times daily for something to show up.

I have decided on a TOW trade musket kit but the stock and lock are indicated on their website as on backorder. I am going to call them on monday and see what time frame that means. It's been showing backorder for several months.


Any other thoughts?
 
I can tell you that the one from TOW is a lost cause as far as the lock is concerned. Been out of stock for years now. I shoot a Pedersoli Indian Trade Musket. Not perfect in terms of HC/PC but terrific in function.
 
Thought about kits from TOW, Pecatonia, Clay Smith, Caywood, etc. Smith and Caywood doesn't really have a NW kit.

NorthFork is correct about TOW and appropriate lock. Their NW trade gun lock was made from castings by Pete Allen who has shut down his foundry. Very questionable whether it will ever start up again.

Not sure where you got the idea that "Caywood doesn't really have a NW kit." Danny Caywood definitely has a NW kit. It's a bit pricey, but there aren't a lot of choices anymore.

http://www.caywoodguns.com/northwest-trade-gun.html
http://www.caywoodguns.com/price-list.html
 
Sitting fox offers the classic and the early as kits...the early is a little less then hc. However I was very satisfied with the service and the product when I delt with sitting fox.
I’ve heard complaints about them but mostly related to the. Fit and finished of compleated guns. You do get what you pay for. Don’t compare a 1500 dollar gun to a three thousand dollar one. Kits are comparable to Track.
 
Or if you are wanting a kit, Pedersoli offers the trade musket in a kit form. Be real easy then to correct a couple small items and defarb it and then it would certainly be more HC/PC.

Trade guns, be it muskets or rifles are kind of a niche market. Unfortunately that market is very small and doesn't bring easy profits. Hence the lack of options on the market. Everyone wants a fancy dressed up rifle, not a plain jane work horse.
 
thanks for the replies....I must have missed the northwest trade musket from Caywood. I will probably go with that one.
 
Welcome to the forum, randyt. I think I understand what you want... I'm not a reenactor, either, but I appreciate authentic equipment.

I am fortunate in owning two Northwest guns, one 24 gauge by Danny Caywood and a 20 gauge from Matt Denison of North Star West, which Matt unfortunately had to shut down a few years ago due to illness. Both are great guns, sure-fire, accurate, and fun to shoot. Both, but especially the NSW gun, are about as historically correct as you could reasonably hope for. Not "bench copies" of originals, but very true to the original style of these interesting guns.

As plmeek pointed out, Danny Caywood can sell you a finished gun, an assembled gun in the white, or a kit. His locks are famous for reliability, and when I ordered mine, Ed Rayl was making Caywood's barrels. At this time, Mr. Caywood is the only builder I know of who has a standardized model of an authentic Northwest Gun as a regular offering, but there are a lot of people out there who could probably custom build one for you. It's just that you would likely have to gather up parts from various sources and agree on how you want them put together, which would require that you do some research and make some decisions.

It is true that these guns were handmade and showed some variability from one gun to the next, and I have seen photos of some genuine antiques which had smooth thimbles or military-style sideplates or a fully round barrel or maybe a different style of lock, but these were unusual. Most were built to a fairly consistent general pattern or specifications, and I think you will be happiest with your gun if you have one that is really typical of the style, rather than some odd variant.

There are some "Northwest guns" out there that are not very authentic. I have heard of people using Siler locks, for example. These are fine locks, but stylistically incorrect for a Northwest Gun. L&R makes a large flint "Trade Gun" lock which is the right size and is a good-looking lock, but it has a flat face and cock, and would be more at home on a French gun. You want a large, round faced English lock. Charles Hanson pointed out that the Northwest gun was essentially an English weapon. There were some American and Belgian ones being made by the mid-19th century, but they were essentially copies or "knock offs" of the English guns. The point of this digression being that if you want to have an authentic NW Gun custom built, you'll need to know what to ask for.

So, there are some builders using inappropriate components, but there are some others who have scratch-built some wonderful guns. As an example, there was one Ken Gahagan made for Scott Sibley featured on the Contemporary Makers blogspot a few years ago which was beautifully assembled from well-chosen components. You can pull it out of their archives with a search.

The Pedersoli Trade Musket was mentioned in this thread a couple of times. Pedersoli wisely elected to call it a Trade Gun, but not a Northwest Gun. It is not a copy of any historic gun. The ramrod pipes are not corrugated and the side plate is unlike anything you'll see on historic guns. They did use a big, round-faced lock, but it has inappropriate markings and engraving for a Northwest gun. Pedersoli uses their "one size fits all" pigtail trigger, and reduced the dimensions of the famously oversized NWG trigger guard to fit it. Several of the fellows on this forum own these guns and have posted about them. I understand it is a pretty good gun, a good shooter, and there are a few relatively simple modifications that can be done to make it look more authentic. I wouldn't mind having one as a shooter. It's just that out of the box, you can't really call it a Northwest gun.

If you're looking to buy a Northwest gun readymade, and you want a good one, you'll need to cast a wider net. You see some wonderful guns in the Classifieds on this forum, but as you noted, Northwest guns are few and far between. Keep checking, but also look in the For Sale section of the American Longrifles forum and on the Contemporary Longrifle Association (CLA) Artisan's Marketplace. Track of the Wolf also has Northwest Guns for sale pretty regularly. The Gun Works, in Oregon, has a nice one by Mark Horvat, as new, up for sale right now for a reasonable price. The Gun Works lists their guns for sale on their own website, but they also offer their guns through Guns International, with much better pictures.

If you buy a custom built NW gun, I think you should expect to pay around $1,800 - $2,200 for a good one with best-quality components and authentic styling. Used ones in very good condition or readymade guns built "on spec" would probably be around three quarters of that amount. I think the Horvat gun mentioned above, for example, is priced at $1,650. You might also find a gun that shows heavy usage for a much reduced price. If it was built with good components, it might be a good value. If you want to build from a kit, I would recommend that you consider the components thoughtfully, for authenticity but also for reliable function. Investing a little more in good parts and components can make the difference between a thoroughly enjoyable session at the range with a lot of lead downrange, or a frustrating couple of hours just trying to make it go bang and hit the paper when you pull the trigger.

Good luck ! Let us know what you find and how you do with it.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
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