Has anyone ever tried to make a NW trade gun useing the plans in Bill Newtons book. I was thinking of buying a barrel and lock and trying to make everything else myself any and all comments welcome..Regards ..rusty
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NW Trade Gun
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Yep, I have done that. I recommend Hanson's Trade Gun Sketchbook also($5.00). There are templates that prevent one from making the stock to bulky. These guns were slim, builders usually leave too much lumber on them. My recomendation is to use an excellent lock first(Jim Chambers). Don :winking:
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I built one using a grid sheet from a burial excivation in NY. The Mohawk warrior had been nice enough to completely cover the stock with brass tacks before he died, sometime around 1650. There was a six inch section of barrel breech with intact bore. The only change I made was to replace the "Snaplock" with a flint doglock copy.
"Trade guns" have been pretty much uniform since the Indians realized what they needed in the woods. Light weight, medium bore, good balance, rugged hardware. The NW gun was the final step in the evolution and survived until 1913 with the HBC. The English found that they could not give away military surplus to the Indians. They considered the ugly chunks an insult.
At that time there were no "builders locks" available to me. I stripped the guts out of a large Siler, reworked the frizen, ground the bridle off the pan and made a new cock and plate.
It was the first gun I built. I had to be PC for a 1673 reenactment and no one was there to tell me it was more than I needed to try, so I just did it! Still have it, still carry it, people still do a double take when they see the lock.
Today we have "trade locks", preshaped stocks, choice of rifled or smooth bore Oct-round tubes, ready made hardware. You could probably put a trade gun together over a weekend and have the finish on by Sunday night.
If you think you can beat the componant price on the Track of the Wolf kit then give it a whirl, but you are setting yourself up for some big time work! At least start with the generic musket stock Track offers. That alone will save you a week of work. The butt plate and thimbles you can make yourself, but they are the least expensive of the components. You could find a cheaper barrel from a modern shotgun, but what would be the point. Without the half round half oct barrel it will not be a very good TG copy. You will still have to put out the money for the TG lock.
You will probaly find that buying cheaper componants individually will cost more than the Trak kit.
"Trade guns" have been pretty much uniform since the Indians realized what they needed in the woods. Light weight, medium bore, good balance, rugged hardware. The NW gun was the final step in the evolution and survived until 1913 with the HBC. The English found that they could not give away military surplus to the Indians. They considered the ugly chunks an insult.
At that time there were no "builders locks" available to me. I stripped the guts out of a large Siler, reworked the frizen, ground the bridle off the pan and made a new cock and plate.
It was the first gun I built. I had to be PC for a 1673 reenactment and no one was there to tell me it was more than I needed to try, so I just did it! Still have it, still carry it, people still do a double take when they see the lock.
Today we have "trade locks", preshaped stocks, choice of rifled or smooth bore Oct-round tubes, ready made hardware. You could probably put a trade gun together over a weekend and have the finish on by Sunday night.
If you think you can beat the componant price on the Track of the Wolf kit then give it a whirl, but you are setting yourself up for some big time work! At least start with the generic musket stock Track offers. That alone will save you a week of work. The butt plate and thimbles you can make yourself, but they are the least expensive of the components. You could find a cheaper barrel from a modern shotgun, but what would be the point. Without the half round half oct barrel it will not be a very good TG copy. You will still have to put out the money for the TG lock.
You will probaly find that buying cheaper componants individually will cost more than the Trak kit.
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don't have photo capability MM, sorry.
Actually, the stock shape in close to the French type c or d, not the fishbelly one would associate with that time. Having a snap lock, the origional was probably dutch.
If you can picture a type C French buttstock with a squared off lock mortise and the 1650 style Dog lock trapiziodal plate 6" long, with flat straight backed cock. The origional snaphance lock was larger.
The barrel is round in 14 guage, about 31" long(as was the origional) far shorter than we would expect also. the barrel had been "killed" (bent double) when burried. The Bore had some erosion but was close to intact and miked .66-.68 so I duplicated that.
I got the grid sheet from one of the state Universities in NY. This was back in the mid 70s when archeology was research, not "decicration" of graves! I did a dot-to-dot sketch of the tack remains and blew the result up on a copy machine to get a 14" trigger pull. The exterior outline is historically precise except for changes I made to allow flow of lines through the new shaped mortise, but I'm not sure about top, bottom lines and there was no butplate present.
I guess you would call this a fantasy gun, since nothing like it has ever been found. All of the parts were available at that time but never known to be put together in this secquence. Using this gun I can reenact back to 1630-1650.
I have been wanting to build a light English matchlock converted to flint for several years. The English ordered all of their military guns be converted to flint in the early 1670s. This was just prior to King Phillip's War in New England. If the colonists had been depending on matchlocks through that period they would have been wiped out. They lost 1/3 of the population as it was. Boston was in danger and there was fighting in the streets of Providence RI. Church's scouts finally ran Phillip to ground. Most of his "rangers" were armed with light doglocks.
Actually, the stock shape in close to the French type c or d, not the fishbelly one would associate with that time. Having a snap lock, the origional was probably dutch.
If you can picture a type C French buttstock with a squared off lock mortise and the 1650 style Dog lock trapiziodal plate 6" long, with flat straight backed cock. The origional snaphance lock was larger.
The barrel is round in 14 guage, about 31" long(as was the origional) far shorter than we would expect also. the barrel had been "killed" (bent double) when burried. The Bore had some erosion but was close to intact and miked .66-.68 so I duplicated that.
I got the grid sheet from one of the state Universities in NY. This was back in the mid 70s when archeology was research, not "decicration" of graves! I did a dot-to-dot sketch of the tack remains and blew the result up on a copy machine to get a 14" trigger pull. The exterior outline is historically precise except for changes I made to allow flow of lines through the new shaped mortise, but I'm not sure about top, bottom lines and there was no butplate present.
I guess you would call this a fantasy gun, since nothing like it has ever been found. All of the parts were available at that time but never known to be put together in this secquence. Using this gun I can reenact back to 1630-1650.
I have been wanting to build a light English matchlock converted to flint for several years. The English ordered all of their military guns be converted to flint in the early 1670s. This was just prior to King Phillip's War in New England. If the colonists had been depending on matchlocks through that period they would have been wiped out. They lost 1/3 of the population as it was. Boston was in danger and there was fighting in the streets of Providence RI. Church's scouts finally ran Phillip to ground. Most of his "rangers" were armed with light doglocks.
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Sorry....going through old posts . I love Pryor Mtn. Bills book on building NW trade guns . I would not be a builder now if it weren't for that book . 
TDM
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I’ll add that book to my list Rob.
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Definitely do ! If it weren't for that book I would not be building today ! I can not praise it enough if you want to build a NW trade gun . After my first few guns I always wanted to meet Mr. Newton and thank him personally but never got the. Chance. Strangely enough I emailed him and he emailed me back saying I was welcome and right after that he died . D@mn ..... Very interesting man . Most books on building seem to just confuse me than help me . They just seem to complicate an already complicated subject but Pryor Mtn Bills book is great . Each step is plainly explained and illustrated with a drawing or two to help explain the step . AND it has two full size patterns of original trade guns to build by . Love it . I have two copies . The first one I'd the one I bought from .....I think it was from Dixie and its fallen apart . I was visiting g some store , maybe Log Cabin and saw my second copy and grabbed it as I knew the first one wasn't going to last too long !
TDM
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I’m striking out trying to find a copy but I’ll keep looking. Track has another that looks good that I’ll order.Definitely do ! If it weren't for that book I would not be building today ! I can not praise it enough if you want to build a NW trade gun . After my first few guns I always wanted to meet Mr. Newton and thank him personally but never got the. Chance. Strangely enough I emailed him and he emailed me back saying I was welcome and right after that he died . D@mn ..... Very interesting man . Most books on building seem to just confuse me than help me . They just seem to complicate an already complicated subject but Pryor Mtn Bills book is great . Each step is plainly explained and illustrated with a drawing or two to help explain the step . AND it has two full size patterns of original trade guns to build by . Love it . I have two copies . The first one I'd the one I bought from .....I think it was from Dixie and its fallen apart . I was visiting g some store , maybe Log Cabin and saw my second copy and grabbed it as I knew the first one wasn't going to last too long !
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TDM
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Thanks Rob.
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I have Hanson's books on the trade gun but it seems like I should have Pryor Mtn. Bills also. If you could post a source I'd be grateful.
Ryan Gale's book, "For Trade and Treaty", is another good book to have in your trade gun book collection. There's lots of color pictures of original guns and the dimensions are included.
TDM
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I ordered For Trade and Treaty from TOW yesterday.
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I haven't seen Mr. Newtons book for sale for a long time ...
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Hey fellas ...I have contacted Pryor Mtn .Bill Newtons daughter and she's has given her permission and blessing to me to copy my books by her father so you all can have copies . We'll hash this out ! Pretty damn cool !
That is a good one, just got a copy few weeks back, real nice book.
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That is very generous of her. Are you going to digitize the book or paper copy it?
