Offhand shooting?

[smo]

1. Establish your natural point of aim before firing a shot. Verify it before firing additional shots.

2. Concentrate on perfect sight alignment while smoothly pressing the trigger and continue to concentrate on perfect sight alignment "till the bullet passes through the target." (You should be able to call your shot this way.)

3. DON'T try to force a shot as the sights move in your natural wobble area towards the center of the bullseye, as it is a guaranteed way to shoot a bad shot.

Though this "error chart" is old, it still holds true.View attachment 191542



Gus

RIP Mr. Dutch…

 

[The Appalachian]

It is a new gun , and the trigger pull is heavier than I would like.

Took a little time but you answered your own question with that statement......

Right handed correct? You're pulling your shot to the right with a heavy trigger you're not used to. Either get used to it through a lengthy dry firing regimen, or lighten the trigger.

Off the bench you're not quite as affected by the heavier trigger and the bags or whatever support you're using keep the gun from pulling; off hand, you're simply pulling your shots with your trigger hand when you shoot. I'm betting very heavy odds you're squeezing the wrist also, with your right hand as you pull that heavy trigger. Break that habit too, as it's contributing to the problem. Only your trigger finger muscles should tighten and move.

 

[Artificer]

RIP Mr. Dutch…

I second that of course, but what I wrote came from my own personal experience.

Gus

 

[Bullit]

Hold, squeeze, hold. Pretty sure you'll get this. One thing for sure, your problem is consistent. That's good. That means you only have one problem to overcome. Much better than your shots being all over the place. Then you'd have multiple problems to correct.

 

[Bob K]

If your noticing a delay between flash and boom you may need to clean the flash hole to the barrel. Flash/boom should happen almost without noticeable delay.

Now, what helped me with off hand was to practice with sticks to support the front of the rifle with your front hand grip keeps the rifle on the target laterally. Practicing This may help you relax with your aiming hand and eventually removing the sticks would feel more comfortable and not jerking with your front hand. Personally, every time I pulled the trigger I was moving the rifle right anticipating the boom.

 

[Artificer]

If your noticing a delay between flash and boom you may need to clean the flash hole to the barrel. Flash/boom should happen almost without noticeable delay.

Now, what helped me with off hand was to practice with sticks to support the front of the rifle with your front hand grip keeps the rifle on the target laterally. Practicing This may help you relax with your aiming hand and eventually removing the sticks would feel more comfortable and not jerking with your front hand. Personally, every time I pulled the trigger I was moving the rifle right anticipating the boom.

Bob,

I LOVE the original picture in your Avatar because it is the earliest illustration I know of that shows using a sling for support in offhand shooting. It is not quite what we Marines call a "hasty sling," but it is close. May I ask where you got that illustration?

Gus

 

[Hawk54]

No, the hold position is probably not it, I do have a homemade rear sight. I probably just need more practice. What is confusing is all my shots are going right? I would assume I am holding it wrong?

Too little trigger finger on the trigger can pull left and too much trigger finger on the trigger can pull right. Espcially if the weapon has a strong or sticky trigger pull.

Often when shooting from a bench and then going to an off hand position your cheek weld (position of your cheek/face on the stock) will change and can alter your point of impact.

 

[SwanShot]

another trick (at least for me) is to apply a bit of technique I picked up shooting spring piston airguns, don't "death grip" your rifle, keep the muscles in your hands relaxed. I also keep my thumb laying alongside the wrist instead of wrapping it over the top, if I do jerk the trigger or tense my hand a bit this keeps my thumb from twisting the stock and pulling the shot to the right.



Chris

We have a young guy on our range who started out great then deteriorated quite rapidly as he developed his flinch. I knew his mother taught a yoga class so I told him to ask her to teach him how to relax under tension. He did as I suggested and his shooting improved outa sight.
It's all about the rhythm. His, and mine is:
start with the rifle at the waist, don;t take your eye off the target.
RELAX, take a full but not big breath and shoulder the rifle at the same time.
As you find the sight picture you are letting your breath out slowly and steadily. RELAX.
Relaxing while in tension is something that has to be learned. Holding our whole body in tension seems the natural thing to do.
As soon as the sight picture is good stay relaxed and fire, do not hesitate.
Nothing but the finger moves. The recoil will push your shoulder back. Let it, offer no resistance.
Throughout all the above your only focus is on the target and the front sight, stay focused through the shot.
Once practiced this process gets my shots off in around three to four seconds.
Miss fires during practice can be very valuable. If you are doing it right you should still be on target after the gun failed to fire.
Ignore the flash, ignore the flash, ignore the flash.

A good way to test yourself for flinch is to get someone else to prime, or not prime your firearm while you don't watch. You literally don't know whether, or not the rifle is going to fire. If there is a flinch it will be obvious.

Do not feel bad about flinching, if that is what you are doing, just about every shooter has had to deal with it. It's just part of the game.

 

[Fisherking]

From the responses I guess I shouldn’t be dry firing with a good flint or the same with powder in the pan, but this has been the best cure for learning flinchlock technique. Between that and klatching, my offhand has greatly improved.

Don’t pick the vent regularly and use the irregularities to see if you are flinching.

Just my .02

I don’t have years of experience like most here, but I am on the same learning curve and this helped me the most.

 

[Artificer]

From the responses I guess I shouldn’t be dry firing with a good flint or the same with powder in the pan, but this has been the best cure for learning flinchlock technique. Between that and klatching, my offhand has greatly improved.

Don’t pick the vent regularly and use the irregularities to see if you are flinching.

Just my .02

I don’t have years of experience like most here, but I am on the same learning curve and this helped me the most.

Dry firing with a good flint and some powder in the pan sure is the best way to get over flinching from the lock going off. I'm sure you mean in a place where you don't have to worry about a stray spark setting something on fire or the powder flash sets off a smoke alarm.

However, once one gets that under control, from there it's best to go with the wooden dummy flint because you can do that inside and you can get more dry firing done to tighten up your wobble area and see any mistakes we all do.

It's not one or the other, it's whichever one needs the most of, that should dictate which technique to use.

Gus

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Dry firing with a good flint and some powder in the pan sure is the best way to get over flinching from the lock going off.

Well, I disagree to a point ... as I'm left-handed and started out on right-handed flint smootbore muskets.

I focus ONLY on the front sight and where it is up to and through the shot and I have NEVER seen any pan flash ...

If people practiced the regimen I added above they'd overcome their flinch easily.

 

[Artificer]

Well, I disagree to a point ... as I'm left-handed and started out on right-handed flint smootbore muskets.

I focus ONLY on the front sight and where it is up to and through the shot and I have NEVER seen any pan flash ...

If people practiced the regimen I added above they'd overcome their flinch easily.

True and that's how I did it, though I'm a right handed shooter.

Not everyone seems to be able to do it, though. So, if they need to use powder in the pan with the flint in the jaws for a while, more power to them.

Gus

 

[Hawk54]

As Flint62Smoothie said concentrate on the front sight. Look at the front sight. Then shift to the target and bring the front sight to the target. Then shift back to the sight. The target will blur a little. The eye can only focus on one thing at a time. Take a breath and let half out and squeeze the trigger. Keep your concentration on the front sight through the shot.

 

[Jim K]

My thing with offhand shooting I’m working on is not jerking the trigger when on target. I’m trying to squeeze and accept where the ball goes. I seem to wind up shooting better that way. On the bench, I don’t flinch or see the flash. I often forget to **** when I get down to shoot. I set the set trigger and squeeze. Of course it just clicks and then I **** it to full ****. Although it’s a little aggravating, it does tell me I’m not flinching. Sure is fun shooting flintlock!!

 

[1BadDart]

I shoot air rifles offhand a lot and it helps with the muzzleloader shooting. I can't shoot with my feet at a 45° to the target. My stance is almost in line with the imaginary line from me to the targe. (I think pistol shooters shoot this way), my back foot will out a little. If the line ran through the arch on my front foot, it would run through the heel of my rear foot. My front hand is just behind the balance point on my rifle, which is at the ramrod entry pipe in the stock. The index finger on my front hand touches the groove in the entry pipe so it's located in the same place every time. My elbow and the back of my bicep are resting against my ribcage. The rifle always comes from to the target from above, when my wobble settles the shot is broke. The 9 1/2 ounce trigger on my ML helps, LOL. If I'm shooting left, I'll adjust my back foot out a little (LH shooter) to adjust my natural POA and the opposite if I'm shooting right.

I struggle with my trigger finger location and feeling the trigger, when it gets cold I can't feel it at all.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Yup, that is the way to adjust your stance to establish the NPA. Always keep your front foot fixed!

And if ‘high’ on a target (dry fire or checking your alignment without shooting) bring your rear foot closer to the front foot. But if the front sight is ‘low’ of the bullseye, spread your rear foot out wider; always in the same orientation/angle.

That sounds the opposite of what you should do, but it works!

 

[ord sgt]

I struggle with my trigger finger location and feeling the trigger, when it gets cold I can't feel it at all.

Like you, I am having trouble with feeling the trigger. Carpal tunnel has caused a loss of feeling in my right index finger and thumb. I can feel pressure on those two digits but lack sensitivity.

 

[M. De Land]

I shoot air rifles offhand a lot and it helps with the muzzleloader shooting. I can't shoot with my feet at a 45° to the target. My stance is almost in line with the imaginary line from me to the targe. (I think pistol shooters shoot this way), my back foot will out a little. If the line ran through the arch on my front foot, it would run through the heel of my rear foot. My front hand is just behind the balance point on my rifle, which is at the ramrod entry pipe in the stock. The index finger on my front hand touches the groove in the entry pipe so it's located in the same place every time. My elbow and the back of my bicep are resting against my ribcage. The rifle always comes from to the target from above, when my wobble settles the shot is broke. The 9 1/2 ounce trigger on my ML helps, LOL. If I'm shooting left, I'll adjust my back foot out a little (LH shooter) to adjust my natural POA and the opposite if I'm shooting right.

I struggle with my trigger finger location and feeling the trigger, when it gets cold I can't feel it at all.

View attachment 191791View attachment 191792View attachment 191793

I'm in the same boat as a lock blade knife failure folded up over my trigger finger 20 years ago and now it gets cold fast and I have no feeling in the end. I found that I had to have more let off pressure added to the trigger pull or I couldn't control it. A no creep trigger is still essential but an increase to a lbs. or lbs and a quarter pull has greatly benefited me.
I added an over-travel stop screw that also seems to help in one of my offhand rifles but I'm not sure why it works.
I do the same with the back foot adjustment to get the natural point of aim.
What amazes me is how accurate one can call the shot from the break sight picture with a bit of practice.
I used to shoot midrange black powder buffalo rifles and could call my score withing a point or two from the break sight picture before the target drop and scoring, at two hundred yards.

 

[Bushfire]

We have a young guy on our range who started out great then deteriorated quite rapidly as he developed his flinch. I knew his mother taught a yoga class so I told him to ask her to teach him how to relax under tension. He did as I suggested and his shooting improved outa sight.
It's all about the rhythm. His, and mine is:
start with the rifle at the waist, don;t take your eye off the target.
RELAX, take a full but not big breath and shoulder the rifle at the same time.
As you find the sight picture you are letting your breath out slowly and steadily. RELAX.
Relaxing while in tension is something that has to be learned. Holding our whole body in tension seems the natural thing to do.
As soon as the sight picture is good stay relaxed and fire, do not hesitate.
Nothing but the finger moves. The recoil will push your shoulder back. Let it, offer no resistance.
Throughout all the above your only focus is on the target and the front sight, stay focused through the shot.
Once practiced this process gets my shots off in around three to four seconds.
Miss fires during practice can be very valuable. If you are doing it right you should still be on target after the gun failed to fire.
Ignore the flash, ignore the flash, ignore the flash.

A good way to test yourself for flinch is to get someone else to prime, or not prime your firearm while you don't watch. You literally don't know whether, or not the rifle is going to fire. If there is a flinch it will be obvious.

Do not feel bad about flinching, if that is what you are doing, just about every shooter has had to deal with it. It's just part of the game.

As a slight digression, are there many young people coming through the BP world in Aus?

I've never met anyone within 20 years of me here with any interest.

 

[SwanShot]

Do not feel bad about flinching, if that is what you are doing, just about every shooter has had to deal with it. It's just part of the game.

As a slight digression, are there many young people coming through the BP world in Aus?

I've never met anyone within 20 years of me here with any interest.

Some but not many. I've got a couple of guys in their 40s shooting with us, but I would put the average age around 60.