Old designs with modern materials legal?

[Mark from Alaska]

Hello there!

I was wondering if it is possible and legal to talk about old designs for a possibles bag with alternative materials? Living in a rainforest, leather tends to have issues with the continued rainy wet. Canvas tends to be floppy for a possibles bag.

Thanks,
Mark from Alaska

 

[Black Hand]

The Craftsman
Muzzleloading related things you've made or have questions about making - Knives, Tomahawks, Horns, Clothing, Bags, etc. Traditional Only - no modern designs. Do not post items unrelated to Muzzleloading. This is not a "general craft" category.

 

[tenngun]

Might you try something told a belt military cartridges box in this case waxed hard leather over a tin box or just plain like a heavy waxed jack ware box on your belt

 

[BrownBear]

Dunno how the crowd would feel about alternative materials, but I've played with them without tipping my hand here and learned a few lessons. Biggest lesson is the importance of a good seam seal. Without waterproof seams, it doesn't matter what you build with. Along those lines, sewing inside out with a welt and reversing the bag sure helps dry up the seams, but I use SnoSeal on them too.

I have however, found a leather than I like here in our semi-wet country (semi- because we only get 90 inches a year compared to your WET country). I use Tandy's Stoned Oiled Leather which is treated with waxes and oils. Still gets wet, but I go one step further. After construction I dose them hard and regularly with Fiebings Leather Balm with Atom Wax. It darkens the leather, but goes miles toward keeping leather dry (ish). Might give it a try.

Here's a "wet weather" bag I made using that leather, followed with a dose of the Fiebings. The leather started a medium brown, and the Fiebings made it dark brown.

BTW- Get yourself a copy of TC Albert's great book Recreating the 18th Century Hunting Pouch. It's the bible for bag building with incredible step-by-step photos and instructions for bag building. He also includes some patterns taken from originals. Just be forewarned that the originals are lots smaller than the suitcases guys carry today.




One more thing of note: In wet country I HATE big old horns that hang outside the bag on their own straps. Not only are they a great way to ruin a lot of powder, they tangle in the brush. I make my horns only about 6" long so they drop inside my bags, yet they still hold around 1,400 grains of powder.

More pics:

 

[Jumpshot]

sewing inside out with a welt and reversing the bag sure helps dry up the seams, but I use SnoSeal on them too.

Before or after sewing?

 

[BrownBear]

sewing inside out with a welt and reversing the bag sure helps dry up the seams, but I use SnoSeal on them too.

Before or after sewing?

I do it after sewing. Seems like it would get kinda messy and slick to do it before, but I'm guessing.

 

[Jumpshot]

I do it after sewing. Seems like it would get kinda messy and slick to do it before, but I'm guessing.

That's what I figured. I assume you would also have to do any dying of the leather first.

 

[BrownBear]

That's what I figured. I assume you would also have to do any dying of the leather first.

The stone oiled is already colored and more or less resists dying due to the oils and waxes.

I've tried dying leather before and after builds, and I much prefer doing it afterward. Most dyes stiffen the leather somewhat (can be flexed and softened later) and shrink it slightly around the edges. For me the pre-dyed leather is more challenging to sew, so I dye after sewing.

Of course, I have a reminder of that in my face right now with a project (non-muzzleloading) I'm working on. Parts are dyed and parts aren't so I dyed first, and now I'm having to contend with it. Much tougher to get neat seams and tight fits when it's dyed beforehand and stiffer. Pre-dyed leather you buy doesn't suffer from those problems, though. My hesitation with those is buying just the right color and texture I want, seldom possible.

 

[Mark from Alaska]

Wow Mr. bear.. very nice bag.. classic design.. what's not to love. thanks for the tip from Tandy Leather... pre oiled might help..I have a very small horn that I use, and it is always inside, usually stuffed into a oversized pocket...

 

[BrownBear]

Thanks on the complement Mark. You're well on your way with that small horn.

There's a "hidden" design feature on that bag for wet weather: The flap is wider at the top than the bag mouth so there's little chance that rain can sneak past the edge of the flap and dribble down into the bag. Here's a shot of the pattern for the back panel I use, clearly showing the narrower opening (black line 2" down from the top) and the attachment above for the flap:

 

[pondoro]

Lots of great advice here on making leather work.

 

[BrownBear]

Better news yet. The Leather Guy has a sale on oil tanned brown shoulders (over 10 square feet each). Regular price $55 each, but buy three and get one free. That's over 40 square feet of leather for $165.

Might seem like a lot of leather, but it keeps forever. You can also share with other leather benders, too. Done already ordered my 4! :grin:

 

[BrownBear]

Thought I'd report back.

Just received my 4 shoulders of oil tanned leather from The Leather Guy. It's more of a reddish chocolate brown than the oiled and waxed version from Tandy and noticeably different for the lack of wax. It's heavier too, almost as though it was measured as true thickness rather than weight. Might be a real nice alternative for anyone wanting leather a little thicker and more colorful than Tandy's version.

Lack-o-wax doesn't bother me at all. I'll be using Fiebing's Atom Wax on top of it as a matter of course. Haven't tried it, but I'll be interested to see if and how it changes color with the Fiebings. Easy to see that if it goes darker, it's going to be even more "attractive" to my eye than the Tandy.

Shipping to Alaska was painful ($60+ for 4 shoulders) and I can beat that quite a bit by ordering within the postal zone from Tandy in Anchorage. But if it turns out to be even better than the Tandy, I'll pay the difference in shipping and not whine. Well, not too much anyway! :haha:

 

[Pete44ru]

I have a canvas possibles bag that's lined with a rubberized material.

After I sewed the patch on the flap, I sealed the sewing/seams with rubber cement (8 years ago), and none of the things I carry (like patches) have gotten damp/wet as yet.

 

[BrownBear]

That's a dandy. I got a canvas fowler bag, but with my interest in leather quickly made a pattern for a leather version. I've done the same with antique canvas fishing bags. Takes nothing away from the great utility of the original canvas.

 

[MSW]

BrownBear, that's a really slick bit of design - i hope you don't mind if i use bits of it on my next build ... cold dark winters here in Vermont ... not much to do except tinker with stuff and cuss at liberals (which, regrettably, we have in abundance - can we get a bounty on them?) ...

i like the darker color, too!

:thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[BrownBear]

Go for it! And I look forward to seeing what you turn out. Always open to new ideas and insights.