old shovel for spring steel

[tat]

Hello,

I have read before that you can use the metal off of a shovel head for springs. I have one that I want to use for a spring, it is untouched and I was wanting to know if I should anneal the head before I attempt to cut a strip off for my spring. I am using this spring in an underhammer, I would appreciate any help yall could give me on the whole process. from cutting it off of the shovel head to the final heat treatment.


Thanks

 

[Wehrmacht]

That's interesting. Don't know anything about metalurgey (is that how it's spelled?) but I'm fascinated by this kinda stuff and blacksmithing-which I've never had a chance to try :winking:.

The House Brothers, Hershel and Frank, like to use old A-Model Ford springs for what you are talking about. I've got a little .32cal squirrel rifle made under Hershel's supervision, and the butt plate,trigger guard,thimbles,etc are out of A-Model springs tho the lock springs are from Jim Chambers.

Another metal that the House Boys use,and others I'm told, is the bumpers and springs out of old 1939-41ish International trucks, and also the tines and the bar that these attach to on old horse drawn hay rakes. One of these days I'm gonna get into this stuff :thumbsup:

 

[guncobbler]

I made an underhammer spring this fall. Annealed it in the coals, bent it to shape, heated bright red and quenched it in oil. Seem to remember tempering it at 350 in the kitchen oven. Before annealing a file would not grab the surface. After I could get a little grab but only with pressure. Seems to work just fine. I adjusted the shape so that there was just a tiny amount of pressure on the hammer when it was uncocked. You might want to make a fitting pattern out of blue steel strapping to get the shape rignt. Lot easier than with full thickness spring. GC

 

[eph289]

I made a spring for my first underhammer out of a keyhole saw blade. I bent it to shape cold and then stress relieved it @450 deg. for a half hr. I had to rebend it a couple times before I got it right.Each time stress relieving it. If you don't relieve it , it wants to return to its original shape when flexed. My wife even let me use her oven to do it :grin: You might be able to do the same thing with your shovel.

 

[J.D.]

I would suggest using a source of known quality for your spring.

There are a LOT of items made of spring steel that would probably produce a better spring than a shovel, especially an apparently new shovel.

Old hack saw blades, any spring from an old car, and old saw blades would probably make a better spring.

Not to mention new spring steel of known alloy, which relates to known hardening and tempering temperatures.

IMHO, if the metal in the shovel isn't spring steel, you will have wasted a LOT of time better spent on learning other skills than trying to make a spring out of a non springy steel.
J.D.

 

[John Taylor]

Dixie gun works sells annealed spring stock in several different thickness for less than a new shovel. It is soft enough to bend and drill as long as there are no sharp bends. Harden by heating to red and quench in oil. Then polish and heat again slow till blue. One of the old books says lay the new spring on a heavy bar over the forge fire and let the heat from the bar transfer to the spring. Temper heat should be around 600 to 700 degrees. I'm sometimes in a hurry so I just use a torch, and when it gets blue I quench in water. Water quenching at 700 degrees will not make the spring hard again, you got to get it red again to harden.

 

[guncobbler]

JD - The purpose of this activity is just that - to use time that would otherwise be productively used making money or honey doos. To mess around with stuff even if it's not the optimal product or use of our time. If my spring turns out no good it's good to know that Dixie is there to back us up but we like to pretend that we are 100 or more years behind the times and use what is available and interesting. I have less than two years to go before I will retire. Can't wait to waste some time fishin Thanks for the reminder on Dixie. Good old Turner K! GC

 

[tat]

When I mentioned it was untouched I meant it had not been cut yet. It is an old U.S. made shovel with termite damage :winking: I did however throw an old hacksaw blade the fire as well because I remembered hearing about using saw blades.


I have it in coals right now while the fire was going I managed to get my hammer heated and bent into shape as well as rough out my trigger. I really enjoyed sitting out by the fire as the sun went down tonight.

I will definately get some spring steel stock next time.

Thanks

 

[BillinOregon]

Well, geez, Tat, you gonna post us up some pictures of what you've been up to, for heaven's sake?

 

[benvenuto]

old shovels are a mixed bag...

most of them are just mild steel with a harder edge about 1 1/2 inches wide on them. I have a couple where the hard edge has worn off and the previous owner has labouriously brazed a new edge on - probably old mechanical hacksaw blade.

trust me, with springs its better to work with known materials. One microscopic crack and all your hard work filing goes down the drain

 

[tat]

I checked out the shovel this morning and put a file on it. Believe it or not it is still fairly hard. I have to put quite a bit of pressure to get it to cut. I will still try to make a spring from it today after church, and if it wont work I am not going to worry about too much. I will still order spring stock from dixie this week though, what thickness is reccomended for an underhammer triggerguard/mainspring?


Thanks for all of the help!

 

[John Taylor]

1/16" to 3/32", depending on how long it is. 1/8" would make it a little to stiff. For sharp bends you will need to heat it, probably several times to get it to the shape you want. It will get a little hard to work after it has been heated and air cooled so do most of the curves first and leave the sharp bends till last. Also it is best to drill any holes before it is heated.
Another good place for round spring stock is old cars. The rods that hold the trunk lid up are spring steel and very in size according to the weight of the trunk lid. Some Chryslers have them for hood springs also. Make great screw drivers and firing pins.

 

[tat]

I cut the strip I was needing for the spring and shaped it. The design of this underhammer I believe is going to keep me from using a flat spring. This design has a hammer that pulls straight down. The hammer slides through a tube and when I put the flat spring in the notch I cut in the hammer and pull it down as if it were cocked it binds because the flat spring does not move straight down. I think I will need a coil spring above the hammer that will be hidden. This setup I am making will be inletted into the bottom of the stock. This design is a cross between 2 different underhammer lock designs I found in the book Underhammer guns.

 

[John Taylor]

You might find what you need here wolf springs or here McMaster-Carr