Having been a hunter for 65 years, am fortunately still hunting and having gone through all the "stages" that some hunters experience, I'm wondering what's the reason or justification for hunters shooting animals that aren't eaten or utilized? Mounted animals aren't included. To digress a bit...I shot my first deer when I was 11 and the meat was welcomed by my grandparents who had land that could at best be described as a "survival farm". While staying on this "farm" in northern Minnesota from 8 -15 yrs. old, I had my own .22 and later on, a 12 gage double bbled shotgun and quite a bit of the time hunted prey that we didn't eat. One day at the age of 10, I shot a bird that frequented a nearby pond and which had been outsmarting me for months. I triumphantly went to see the results of my "hunting prowess" and looked down at a dead blue heron that to me, looked a lot more beautiful when alive. Also shot a lot of woodchucks and finally realized one day at the age of 14, after having shot three....what good are these seeing we didn't intend to eat them? Finally fed them to the cats. Crows and hawks caused similar thoughts. Thereafter I didn't hunt or trap animals that couldn't be utilized either for fur or meat. This is in no way a criticism of hunters that kill normally non-edible game only for sport...just curious asre their reasons, motivation and justification to do so, with the understanding that some have a stronger desire to hunt....Fred
-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Only edible game?
- Thread starter Vaino
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
I have never understood why peole hunt game they dont intend to eat either, in Hawaii many people hunt because they cant afford to go to the store and buy a weeks worth of food, thats not to say there arent lots of people hunting for the sake of hunting, but most everyone will eat their kill, then again there isnt much to hunt here that isnt edible pigs goat and on one island we got dear (dont ask me how), but i know how you feel when i was kid i would always hunt birs with a pellet gun until i finally killed one then i couldnt figure out why i wanted to kill one in the first place, but im like you we've been runnin low on cash so i've been hunting doves to feed the dog and cat.
oh well thats just my two cents worth.
oh well thats just my two cents worth.
rabbit03
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,143
- Reaction score
- 17
just curious asre their reasons, motivation and justification to do so, with the understanding that some have a stronger desire to hunt....Fred
More than likely the reason is to get good at shooting and the motivation would be the fact that these hunting prowess learned as a young boy (girl) would some day have to be put to use.
The justification would be if someday we need to use these skills to defend our freedom.
rabbit03
More than likely the reason is to get good at shooting and the motivation would be the fact that these hunting prowess learned as a young boy (girl) would some day have to be put to use.
The justification would be if someday we need to use these skills to defend our freedom.
rabbit03
I have trapped or shot animals that were doing damage to crops and at times the meat was not of a type that was palatable or the fur of any value but I cannot see killing any animal just for the sake of the "hunt" a stalk and well aimed empty gun and no bang with a pull of the trigger would be a better option if all one is looking to do is "win" the game. I have at times taken more than I could realy use but always found someone who would make use of it.Waste of game is illeagal in most states as well as unethical IMHO but definitions of what is game may be debated, I doubt many are offended by someone who swats a lot of skeeters or flys, I guess each has their own sense of right or wrong within them as with many issues, I have heard of kill offs for population or damage controll that I don't like but understand the need, I have been envolved in deer kills simply to get rid of them with permits and after the state made it illeagal to give the meat to prisoners it went to waste as the permit holder was not allowed to use it, I was able to get permission to donate the meat to a raptor recovery center so that made it a little better to deal with.
Guest
That' a good question and as a varmint hunter I feel qualified to respond. I shoot woodchucks, crows, foxes, coyotes, and skunks and any other animal that is legally a varmint and that the farmers who own the farms where I shoot tell me to get rid of. I haven't eaten a groundhog in 40 years and never intend to again. All the animals I mentioned are, in one way or another, in competition with the farmers for reasons that we all are aware of. Frankly, I would like to see a bounty return on foxes and an open season declared on them as it is for coyotes. As for hawks - I am anti-raptor would like to see their numbers reduced as well.
Bountyhunter
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2005
- Messages
- 1,246
- Reaction score
- 2
I was gonna respond to this Rabbit, but I think you said it all. Nothing I could add to your post.
We hunt/kill to stay at the top of the food chain. When we reestablish the Republic, the country boy will survive.
We hunt/kill to stay at the top of the food chain. When we reestablish the Republic, the country boy will survive.
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 15,602
- Reaction score
- 19
There is pest control. If I see a coyote I'm going to kill it but I'll be damned if I'm gonna eat it.
Walks Alone
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2005
- Messages
- 923
- Reaction score
- 8
Fred,
I think most of us have felt the despair of shooting something we regretted soon after, most probably when still a child with our first BB gun. In my case it was a song bird that I discovered after had a nest of eggs. Just a natural step we go through as born hunters and for some of us luckily a lesson never forgotten.
On the ranch while growing up "wild" meat was the daily table fare more often than not. So I became a very dedicated meat hunter and was for much of my life... hunting, trapping and fishing for any kind of game that made tasty table fare. I also tanned and used some of the skins, and made things from the bones, feathers, etc... even mounted a few horns although I was meat hunter and never a trophy hunter. But when my own family was raised, the mouths to feed went down to two and eventually to one when I was alone again. So I started cutting back on the game species I pursued and eventually stopped hunting for meat species almost entirely just because I couldn't utilize all the meat. But you don't give up the inbred desire to hunt easily, especially after having done it most of your life.
So the predators and varmints, which I had always done too easily took up the slack of meat hunting and became my mainstay for hunting. I have done P&V ADC for well over 5 decades - on the ranch I grew up on where it was one of my "chores" from a very early age, for other ranchers, farmers, for incorporated municipalities and just for sport. Mostly for species where the meat was not directly utilized by people, many where the skins were also not utilized (although I did utilize prime furbearer skins). But they are species that in one way or another impact cash crops, livestock and people's lives. The invasive species that leads to the need for ADC in the first place is actually man himself though. I don't really feel a need to justify the morality or ethics of ADC. But the fact that reducing numbers by hunting does not even come close to completely eliminating the targeted species and it impacts less collateral damage to other species than poisoning does is a couple of strong points for ADC verses poisoning. I also do it for the sport of the hunt, to pit my skills and abilities against theirs. But my ethics dictate it being done as fair chase only and with few modern aides.
I have a pet peeve against the ethics of organized hunt contests for a cash prize, no matter what species the contest is for. And against what can't be called "fair chase" or even "hunting" in even basic terms that is so popular in many places and glorified on "hunting" shows now days (again no matter what species).
No saint here though, I was born a hunter and I have my dark side. I still enjoy hunting a species that is not for the meat or the skin, and where I hunt them (outside of ADC) they do not impact man directly in any way. IOW, strictly for the sport of pitting my skills against theirs. But it's hard to beat a spot and stalk jackrabbit hunt in the endless miles of empty desert here with the small bore muzzleloaders. It is fair chase at least, not just shooting fish in a barrel, and the only prize is the total experience whether I manage to score or not. Guess that makes me a hypocrite just like everybody else. :wink:
WA
I think most of us have felt the despair of shooting something we regretted soon after, most probably when still a child with our first BB gun. In my case it was a song bird that I discovered after had a nest of eggs. Just a natural step we go through as born hunters and for some of us luckily a lesson never forgotten.
On the ranch while growing up "wild" meat was the daily table fare more often than not. So I became a very dedicated meat hunter and was for much of my life... hunting, trapping and fishing for any kind of game that made tasty table fare. I also tanned and used some of the skins, and made things from the bones, feathers, etc... even mounted a few horns although I was meat hunter and never a trophy hunter. But when my own family was raised, the mouths to feed went down to two and eventually to one when I was alone again. So I started cutting back on the game species I pursued and eventually stopped hunting for meat species almost entirely just because I couldn't utilize all the meat. But you don't give up the inbred desire to hunt easily, especially after having done it most of your life.
So the predators and varmints, which I had always done too easily took up the slack of meat hunting and became my mainstay for hunting. I have done P&V ADC for well over 5 decades - on the ranch I grew up on where it was one of my "chores" from a very early age, for other ranchers, farmers, for incorporated municipalities and just for sport. Mostly for species where the meat was not directly utilized by people, many where the skins were also not utilized (although I did utilize prime furbearer skins). But they are species that in one way or another impact cash crops, livestock and people's lives. The invasive species that leads to the need for ADC in the first place is actually man himself though. I don't really feel a need to justify the morality or ethics of ADC. But the fact that reducing numbers by hunting does not even come close to completely eliminating the targeted species and it impacts less collateral damage to other species than poisoning does is a couple of strong points for ADC verses poisoning. I also do it for the sport of the hunt, to pit my skills and abilities against theirs. But my ethics dictate it being done as fair chase only and with few modern aides.
I have a pet peeve against the ethics of organized hunt contests for a cash prize, no matter what species the contest is for. And against what can't be called "fair chase" or even "hunting" in even basic terms that is so popular in many places and glorified on "hunting" shows now days (again no matter what species).
No saint here though, I was born a hunter and I have my dark side. I still enjoy hunting a species that is not for the meat or the skin, and where I hunt them (outside of ADC) they do not impact man directly in any way. IOW, strictly for the sport of pitting my skills against theirs. But it's hard to beat a spot and stalk jackrabbit hunt in the endless miles of empty desert here with the small bore muzzleloaders. It is fair chase at least, not just shooting fish in a barrel, and the only prize is the total experience whether I manage to score or not. Guess that makes me a hypocrite just like everybody else. :wink:
WA
rabbit03
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2005
- Messages
- 1,143
- Reaction score
- 17
Heck Swampy, just a dab of Fajita seasoning and it would taste pretty good I bet! :thumbsup: Armadilla, racoon, javelina aint too bad with a bit of seasoning.
I too like most everyone who had been turned loose with a rifle back when have shot stuff I wished I wouldn't have.
Bet I won't ever kill another Redbird as long as I live! :shake:
But just as in life we learn about life, even when we are taking the life of some animal. Animals were put here for us to use and not abuse, but they are ours to use no doubt.
rabbit03
I too like most everyone who had been turned loose with a rifle back when have shot stuff I wished I wouldn't have.
Bet I won't ever kill another Redbird as long as I live! :shake:
But just as in life we learn about life, even when we are taking the life of some animal. Animals were put here for us to use and not abuse, but they are ours to use no doubt.
rabbit03
I eat most everything I hunt and kill, always have. Exceptions are crows (hate 'em, they get all the duck eggs in the spring around here and we shoot all we can), stray cats (again, they take too many quail and songbirds and aren't even natural/native) and the few predators I take now and again. I've killed one bear but didn't like the meat much, been slow to hunt them again even though I know I can give the meat away to folks that want it. Only hunt sea ducks once a year or so - I can find a way to make one limit palatable, but can't handle a steady diet of those...
Main thing we trap around here are muskrats, and although I don't like it much there is a market for it. Some years get more for meats than pelts!
Main thing we trap around here are muskrats, and although I don't like it much there is a market for it. Some years get more for meats than pelts!
I hunt because its just in me to hunt...I don't kill just to kill, and in fact the killing part is the least attractive step of the whole hunting experience...and as I've gotten older my interest is no longer in the "how many" but in the "how".
I haven't eaten wild game for years and have no desire to...have always given away all my deer for example, to a needy family out in the area where I hunt. In fact, in spite of having unlimited does tags this year, unless I can find a replacement family I won't be shooting a single one because they've moved out of the area, and as yet I haven't found anyone who'll take them.
However, IMO, varmints are just that...the entire food chain benefits from energy derived when a varmint's life cycle changes...any dead animal in the woods or on a roadside becomes a picked over carcass in no time...nothing in nature is wasted.
I haven't eaten wild game for years and have no desire to...have always given away all my deer for example, to a needy family out in the area where I hunt. In fact, in spite of having unlimited does tags this year, unless I can find a replacement family I won't be shooting a single one because they've moved out of the area, and as yet I haven't found anyone who'll take them.
However, IMO, varmints are just that...the entire food chain benefits from energy derived when a varmint's life cycle changes...any dead animal in the woods or on a roadside becomes a picked over carcass in no time...nothing in nature is wasted.
I shoot lots of animals that don't make it to the table in a given year: raccoons, opossums, woodchucks and the occasional (thankfully) weasel. I have 40 chickens in two fenced yards on either side of the barn and it attracts a lot of opportunists. Unfortunately, I've had several chickens (chicks and adults) killed by opossums and raccoons - caught in the act - and I was astonished that opossums were killers actually. I thought they were egg theives.
Anyway, we share our garden all season with deer, rabbits, the above mentioned critters, and come Fall I look forward to getting some of my vegetables back by proxy.
Anyway, we share our garden all season with deer, rabbits, the above mentioned critters, and come Fall I look forward to getting some of my vegetables back by proxy.
gmww
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2004
- Messages
- 4,693
- Reaction score
- 4
On one of my first hunts (age 10) on a private ranch I was told by the rancher the following. If you have to choose between a trophy deer and see a dog nearby he wants me to shoot the dog. He said the wild dog packs have been taking his calves. That very day I saw a dog. We ran across it as it was eating on a carcass.
It took off running but I knew where the trail would expose it again and shot it when it appeared. I didn't like it but I also knew that if I ever wanted to hunt there again I best follow the ranchers rules.
It took off running but I knew where the trail would expose it again and shot it when it appeared. I didn't like it but I also knew that if I ever wanted to hunt there again I best follow the ranchers rules.
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2004
- Messages
- 14,767
- Reaction score
- 319
The place we have now in the Southwest is overrun with prairie dogs. The place we had before in CA was overrun with ground squirrels. Both have gotta be thinned if you hope to raise hay. Two choices. Poison them or shoot them. We shoot all we can, then poison if we have to.
We also keep the coyotes "honest." We want them to fear us and stay well away from our houses and especially the calving. There for a while we had some wise ones that would get into a herd and wait for a cow to drop her calf, then chase the cow off the new calf. Dinner and more. Trouble was, they wouldn't leave the herd so you could get a crack at them. Just stayed right in the middle of the cows till you walked them out, but always a quick hop into the brush. Moved the cows up close to the house for calving and started picking off any coyote we saw in the vicinity during calving season. Even if we missed, they were made to feel unwelcome enough to stay nervous and stay away. Once calving season is over they don't bother us and we don't bother them unless they start thinking house pets might be tasty.
We also keep the coyotes "honest." We want them to fear us and stay well away from our houses and especially the calving. There for a while we had some wise ones that would get into a herd and wait for a cow to drop her calf, then chase the cow off the new calf. Dinner and more. Trouble was, they wouldn't leave the herd so you could get a crack at them. Just stayed right in the middle of the cows till you walked them out, but always a quick hop into the brush. Moved the cows up close to the house for calving and started picking off any coyote we saw in the vicinity during calving season. Even if we missed, they were made to feel unwelcome enough to stay nervous and stay away. Once calving season is over they don't bother us and we don't bother them unless they start thinking house pets might be tasty.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2006
- Messages
- 17,537
- Reaction score
- 89
Gentlemen: If you all would do as Roundball and others have, by posting a hand written notice on public Bulletin boards, and notifying your local welfare office, you will find people who are happy to take the Meat you kill off your hands, and cook it, and eat it.
Most complaints about the taste of any game is culturally based, and, sadly, on how the meat is handled from the moment of the kill until it is started to cook. If the meat spoils, or is not treated correctly, if hair, gristle, sinew, ligatments, and the little fat found on many varmints are NOT REMOVED, before cooking, the taste can be adversely affected, to say the least!
A friend told me about an older hunter he knew, who every year shot One Robin around his house, removed the breast, and put the meat in the same plastic freezer bag that he kept his Dove breasts in. When he cooked up the breasts, you could not visibly tell the difference between the Robin's breast, and that of the doves. AND, YOU COULDN'T TASTE THE DIFFERENCE, either!
I know a man who makes great " pork " sausage using Ground Hog meat, for instance. And I know some immigrants around here from Asia who would not turn their noses up at Coyote or fox, or even cat. For what its worth, I ate mountain lion at a game feast one year, and it was excellent. I have not attempted, however, to cook or eat feral cats, as I have cats of my own who would frown on such.
If you scroll down the index page to this forum, Claude has provided a terrific list( that keeps growing, thank you) of recipes for cooking all kind of game, large and small. I have a couple of " wild game " cookbooks, in addition to this information.
If you want to expand your palate, and try cooking some of these " varmints", check those recipes, or send me a PM. I can tell you how to prepare the meat after the animal is skinned out, so that its taste is palatable to most everyone. I learned this from 2 people who have since passed away, so I am delighted to pass their advice on in their memories.
The last " wild Game " I tried was BBQed Beaver. It was excellent, and it would be hard for someone to distinguish its taste from a good BBQed beef brisket. The man who trapped the animals is also an excellent cook. When I discussed how he prepared the beaver meat, we found that we were doing much the same thing. I had to fight with an Old SMELLY Wild Boar a few years before our conversation, before it was edible, and we laughed about our struggles to come up with a cooking solution.
Most complaints about the taste of any game is culturally based, and, sadly, on how the meat is handled from the moment of the kill until it is started to cook. If the meat spoils, or is not treated correctly, if hair, gristle, sinew, ligatments, and the little fat found on many varmints are NOT REMOVED, before cooking, the taste can be adversely affected, to say the least!
A friend told me about an older hunter he knew, who every year shot One Robin around his house, removed the breast, and put the meat in the same plastic freezer bag that he kept his Dove breasts in. When he cooked up the breasts, you could not visibly tell the difference between the Robin's breast, and that of the doves. AND, YOU COULDN'T TASTE THE DIFFERENCE, either!
I know a man who makes great " pork " sausage using Ground Hog meat, for instance. And I know some immigrants around here from Asia who would not turn their noses up at Coyote or fox, or even cat. For what its worth, I ate mountain lion at a game feast one year, and it was excellent. I have not attempted, however, to cook or eat feral cats, as I have cats of my own who would frown on such.
If you scroll down the index page to this forum, Claude has provided a terrific list( that keeps growing, thank you) of recipes for cooking all kind of game, large and small. I have a couple of " wild game " cookbooks, in addition to this information.
If you want to expand your palate, and try cooking some of these " varmints", check those recipes, or send me a PM. I can tell you how to prepare the meat after the animal is skinned out, so that its taste is palatable to most everyone. I learned this from 2 people who have since passed away, so I am delighted to pass their advice on in their memories.
The last " wild Game " I tried was BBQed Beaver. It was excellent, and it would be hard for someone to distinguish its taste from a good BBQed beef brisket. The man who trapped the animals is also an excellent cook. When I discussed how he prepared the beaver meat, we found that we were doing much the same thing. I had to fight with an Old SMELLY Wild Boar a few years before our conversation, before it was edible, and we laughed about our struggles to come up with a cooking solution.
Little Wattsy
69 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2008
- Messages
- 3,631
- Reaction score
- 9
flehto said:
Man is a very viable part of the "food chain" reguardless of what the "grenies" think. "Controlling" a population is a worthy effort to sustain a viable healthy population of "whatever" and the critters THEY effect...IE: kill SOME seals to save a truck load of "endangered salmon".....or we thin the cyotes to save livestock and then we NEED to thin prarrie dogs or digger squirles as their "natural" preditor is not enough.
AND....its fun; target practice to the 10th degree.
