OP wad and/or filler.....lotsa Qs??

[henbrook]

Lotsa newb questions.....brace yourself. :idunno:

-What is a suitable material(s) for making OP wads,specifically for use with a .50cal conical(ie;250gr REAL)?

-How thick should they be and what should I lube them with?Moose milk?Bore butter?Doesn't matter?

-What about using fillers such as cornmeal or wasp nest?Do they achieve basically the same end result as a wad?How much cornmeal for example should I use between an 80gr charge of 2f and a 250gr REAL.......or should I not do it at all for some reason? :nono:

-What about using CM or WN under a PRB?How much is reccomended?

-For those that use cornmeal(if any??)do you measure it by volume or do you just eyeball it?

-Is this entire line of questioning simply un-neccessary and there is no need to use any type of OP wad/filler with conicals?

Forgive my ignorance,relatively new ML shooter here.....and that's why I'm here,,,,to learn.it seems to me though that 250gr REALs load almost "too easy" in my CVA Mt.Rifle?And yes,I know it has a 1:66 rb twist,but I have a bucket fulla REALs + mold and they seem to shoot quite accurately(sub 2"@50 yards),but I can't help but think that it must be leaking gases based on the ease of loading?Or...are they supposed to load this easily and expand to bore size when fired?

 

[rafterob]

I see you wait to the end to say it is a Mtn. Rifle. Mine also seems a tad looser than my other .50 calibers but it sure shoots somethin awesome with PRB and no wad or filler. I would say a wad would be your best bet on this one. Lube doesn't make as much difference on a wad as it does on a patch. I would use whatever you are using on your patches (unless that is spit). Old felt hats are recommended by some and there is a product called Durofelt that you can buy. I think I would just buy enough wads to get me through the REALs I had on hand and then switch back to round balls. Reals aren't quite designed for it, but you may want to try paper patching some and see if you can load them without tearing the patching.That would eliminate a wad. R.E.A.L.=rifling engraved at loading, indicates a tight fit at loading and the bands are sealed into the grooves from force of loading. So if they are loose at loading, you definitely have gas blow by.

 

[David W.]

If you have a punch, you can make leather wads. Soak them in 1:7 soluable oil or Ballistol and let them dry. Harbour Freight sells them cheap. For filler material, grits works best. No joke! Do y'all know what grits is up there?

 

[henbrook]

For filler material, grits works best. No joke! Do y'all know what grits is up there?

LOL....yep,I know what grits is....can't say I've ever eaten or even seen it though....not even sure if'n I can buy grits here?

FWIW,I can actually squeeze a thin lubed patch(cotton cleaning patch)down the bore along with the REAL....albeit they blow all to hell when fired(I asume this is not a suitable patch material?),but that don't seem right to me that I can fit any kind of patch down it with a conical?I didn't cast them,maybe they are undersized for whatever reason?I don't have calipers to check them at present.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Connicals DO tend to feel/fit "looser" then RB's do.. A OP Wad IS a good thing and some will say it improves accuracy with RB's as well. I personally aslways just used prelubed store bought wads BUT leather, wool, and felt are all useable materials.
I will say this..IF you are getting good groups then you are not getting much if any gas leaks...That gas would cut that soft lead so easy it would cause "spinners" or "fliers" at least every so often...something that is going to be several inches off at 50 yards.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I use a leather over powder wad, My brother-in-law uses corn meal ( about 1/3 the volume of the powder charge ).Both work well.My nephew doesn't use any wad or filler and does well. So I would say if it feels good use it!

 

[hanshi]

Where I come from they hang folks for wasting grits. Grits, my friend, is the staff of life! :blah: Getting back to the subject you can buy felt very reasonably. That's what I did and punched out my own wads AND NEVER EVER WASTED ONE SINGLE GRIT! :rotf:

 

[roundball]

Oxyoke prelubed wool wads are another great choice...I use them with hunting rifle loads to protect the patch and improve the seal behind the projectile.

Chronographing loads at the range one day with and without an over powder gave the following results:
Without a wad, standard deviation averaged 25fps;
With a wad, the average dropped to 6fps;

 

[henbrook]

Did you find any significant increase in MV using wads as opposed to not?

 

[roundball]

Did you find any significant increase in MV using wads as opposed to not?

Actually, to my surprise I did not get an increase like I assumed I would...in fact, I lost about 20fps.
I'm pretty disciplined in my activities when running chronolgraph tests so I can't imagine suddenly doing anything different for that whole set of shots but somehow I may have...was a puzzler for sure.
I'll be chronographing the new .58cal Virginia this summer to see what I'm getting out of it and will run wad/no-wad tests on it to see if I get the same sort of results

 

[Little Wattsy]

Oxyoke prelubed wool wads are another great choice...I use them with hunting rifle loads to protect the patch and improve the seal behind the projectile.

Chronographing loads at the range one day with and without an over powder gave the following results:
Without a wad, standard deviation averaged 25fps;
With a wad, the average dropped to 6fps;

My personal favorite too. :hatsoff:

 

[Walker357]

Is putting grits in a barrel a good thing? Wouldn't grits cause the rifling to go south on a frosty morn? :grin:

 

[hanshi]

Show-nuff would, cousin! :bow: YEEEE-HAW! ...Long as you don't waste um, ya hear! :rotf:

 

[hanshi]

Your post was for roundball, but I'll just add what I've discovered. Like roundball the spread and sd went way down and were very consistent when I chronographed. I did experience a small but consistent velocity increase on the order of roundball's decrease. I personally think any effect on velocity is negligible and will depend on the individual gun. The lowered velocity spread, on the other hand, would be found very frequently.

 

[Tom Compton]

CAUTION!

"FWIW,I can actually squeeze a thin lubed patch(cotton cleaning patch)down the bore along with the REAL...."

If the bullet is THAT loose, you need to worry about it sliding down the barrel part ways when barrel is pointed down and then shooting with a plugged barrel.

REAL is accronym for Rifling Engraved At Loading If it is that loose it ain't engraving.

 

[henbrook]

I don't think it is so loose that it might actually slide on it's own?They are fairly easy to load lubed however,and the patch I tried with it was a thin cotton cleaning patch which was a SoB to stuff down but stuff it did eventually.I suppose I could dryball a REAL and pull it out and see if there's any rifling marks couldn't I?I somehow doubt there would be much engraving going on though?I'm kinda hoping the bullet is expanding some to engage the rifling upon firing?I'll have to shoot into sand maybe and try to recover and examine fired bullets.Either way,it seems to be reasonably accurate so far,regardless of what's going on in the bore?2"group @50 yards with a non-functioning set trigger...I can't imagine myself shooting any much better with the sights that are on it?

 

[R.M.]

The REAL bullets are not intended to be patched. Lube them up, them stuff them down the tube. The edges of the bullet should be engraved by the rifling.

 

[henbrook]

The REAL bullets are not intended to be patched. Lube them up, them stuff them down the tube. The edges of the bullet should be engraved by the rifling.

I know that....I'm just saying mine fit loose enough that I CAN squeeze a thin patch down also.So is my bore too big or my bullets too small is the question....or is this somewhat normal,that is,squeezing in a thin patch with a conical if you want?Also should note these are cotton cleaning patches,I have no idea how thick they would be and the couple I tried burnt and blew all to hell,I assume because they are not proper/suitable patching material?

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu need to have some kind of measuring device to measure your bore, and your patches. Get a DIAL Caliper, as they are cheap( less than $30.00) and will give you good service.

Cleaning patches are for cleaning. They are thin, and are usually made from cotton Flannel clothe. The patch material you need to use with a lead ball is made of thicker, tougher fabric, usually pillow ticking( traditional) or pocket Drill, or muslin. The fabric must be 100% natural fiber- no synthetics in the fabric. Patches, or patching material is purchased on the basis of thickness- typically .015" is in the middle. Some have ball/barrel combinations that require a thinner patch- .010 to .012". Some require thicker patches-.018 to .024". You need to know the depth of the grooves of your rifle, and then the diameter of both the BORE( land to land) and the diameter of the ball. Typically, we choose to shoot a lead ball that is .010" SMALLer in diameter than the Bore diameter in Rifles. IN SMOOTHBORES, however, we often will shoot a ball that is .020" smaller in diameter than the bore.

Go to Track of the Wolf's Website, and explore their catalog to learn about patch sizes, vs. cleaning patches. They have excellent color pictures.

If you are going to shoot conicals, then you will probably benefit from using an Over Powder( OP) wad between the powder charge,and the base of the bullet. Without measuring the BORE diameter of your rifle, you can't possibly buy the right sized conicals for it. You want any conical to be approx. .001" to .002" SMALLER than bore size for best accuracy. The soft lead will usually "bump up" the diameter of the bullet to engage the rifling and spin the bullet as it exits the muzzle. If its smaller in diameter than .002", you are asking too much of the lead to expand enough to engage the rifling, and you either have to begin thinking about paper patching the bullets, or shoot them at very close ranges( under 35 yds.) :thumbsup: