Opinions on Carbine size

[Africa58double]

Recently aquired a carbine .50 Much like a white mountain. I was wanting to know what some think of such a short tube for powder burning. I’m sure the pros of a short barrel are great for a smaller stature shooter to use- or maneuvering thru thicker brush/woods. I hunt short range areas (50-60yards) and tend to keep shots limited to less than 70yards in general for woods hunting. Occasionally I’ll hunt a few field edges/ got some long ranger GM barrel rifles for that use.
If you don’t like carbines- please skip past this thread- I’m looking for information on powder charges in these Short barrel rifles. What charges do you use. Thank you

Smoke em if ya got em- Af58X

 

[rusticbob]

You didn’t mention what you are shooting, prb or slug? Your powder charge will probably be larger with a heavier slug. I have shot a T/C White Mtn Carbine with 80gr FFG and a maxi ball, I never tried it with prb

 

[Africa58double]

That particular rifle is a 1:66” twist so PRB is used. I’d like to try a 250gr Real or the Pa Conical. Most likely just the ball.
Figured charges to be very similar with any Projectile from 180gr to 240/50gr

I think them WMC has a much faster twist… yet same length barrel.

 

[dave951]

I shoot my White Mountain with 65g 3f, 495 RB, .015 ticking. It'll hold under 2in at 50yd with that load. My favorite muzzleloading carbine is an Enfield Musketoon. It's far more accurate than my WM, 58cal and about the same size. In the world of black powder, the only carbine I like better than the musketoon is my 1863 Sharps.

 

[sheriff john]

Short barrels with black powder do limit choices in loads b/c of reduced burn time, but also can provide a bit of a safety margin for excessive powder. Excess powder is simply blown out the muzzle (up to a point).

Once the "sweet spot" load is found, short barrels work fine. Can't recall my source, but long ago, I read a study on velocity regarding barrel lengths using the same load. Cut off barrel from long to short, chronographed results.

One thing I know from experience in the deer woods - short barrels are easier to reload in a tree stand.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Nice looking rifle and should be just the ticket for whitetail in wooded areas. As others pointed out it would have limitations for using huge powder charges but who really needs to kill on both ends?

 

[Stykbow]

It’ll fully burn whatever charge you put in it, but the short barrel will produce less velocity than the same load in a longer barrel. Not as much room to build up speed. I’m a simple kinda guy, so I’d most likely dump the same powder charge in a 50 cal carbine that I would any other rifle of the same caliber.

 

[hanshi]

I like short barrels okay and my current one is a 25" X .45. The 15/16" barrel gives just enough heft to make it an excellent shooter. I killed quite a few deer with 24" X .50 I had several years ago.

 

[Africa58double]

Think I’ll start at 65gr of 2F and go up from there. With a PRB I’m thinking that will still shoot flat enough out at 50-70 yards. I’ve yet to shoot this new little gun- in fact it’s never been shot.
My Other Flinter is a Renegade… and can get loaded up with a heavier projectile and more powder. Yet this little Rb shooter is just nice for Short range woods walking stalking Ol Mr Buck.

 

[Fastleo]

Think I’ll start at 65gr of 2F and go up from there. With a PRB I’m thinking that will still shoot flat enough out at 50-70 yards. I’ve yet to shoot this new little gun- in fact it’s never been shot.
My Other Flinter is a Renegade… and can get loaded up with a heavier projectile and more powder. Yet this little Rb shooter is just nice for Short range woods walking stalking Ol Mr Buck.

I vote you start with 3f, I believe it will help recover most velocity lost.

 

[Acorn Mush]

Once the "sweet spot" load is found, short barrels work fine. Can't recall my source, but long ago, I read a study on velocity regarding barrel lengths using the same load. Cut off barrel from long to short, chronographed results.

Sheriff John, many years back Dixie Gun Works included in their catalogue the results I believe you refer to. I have a copy from 1964 and the table appears on page 89, titled "Variations in velocity when the Dixie 40" barrels are reduced in 2" steps to 20".

They printed the data for quite few years after that but I am not aware of when they stopped.

Edit - Just found the table on page 681 of my 2004 catalogue which is the latest I have.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I really like that. Does it have a Roundball twist?

 

[JakeGa]

Who manufactured that carbine? I am a sucker for a carbine.

 

[Africa58double]

It’s a Thompson Center Penn Hunter Carbine. Very similar to the White mountain carbine, Yet Roundball twist. It’s a later model that has the Full length Octagon barrel,Rubber butt pad and fiber optic sites. Granted it’s not authentic in ways- Yet that’s not why I bought it. I wanted a small carbine, and I’m a fan of the T/c Rifles. This one is unfired- And probably 98% condition. A rare rifle to aquire,let alone in this condition. There is/was one on Gunbroker- yet it has worse for wear and some rust.
Interested in how this little rifle will shoot with 65-75gr of Powder,2F Goex or Swiss- Have 4F for pan or 3F for everything. Rubber butt pad should help- and since it’s for hunting, Sites will remain as is.

 

[Africa58double]

Who manufactured that carbine? I am a sucker for a carbine.

^^^

 

[MiddleJohn]

An

Sheriff John, many years back Dixie Gun Works included in their catalogue the results I believe you refer to. I have a copy from 1964 and the table appears on page 89, titled "Variations in velocity when the Dixie 40" barrels are reduced in 2" steps to 20".

They printed the data for quite few years after that but I am not aware of when they stopped.

Edit - Just found the table on page 681 of my 2004 catalogue which is the latest I have.

And it's on page 633 of my 2008 catalog and page 573 of the 2019.
I'll bet it's in most, if not all of them.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Recently aquired a carbine .50 Much like a white mountain. I was wanting to know what some think of such a short tube for powder burning. ...,
If you don’t like carbines- please skip past this thread- I’m looking for information on powder charges in these Short barrel rifles. What charges do you use. ...,

The British found a couple centuries ago that a patched round ball needed at least a ¼ turn to be stabilized enough for the rifle to have the proper advantage over the musket. Baker rifles were originally 1:120 twist with a 30" barrel for that reason.

So if that's a 1:48 twist, you could go as short at 14"...if it's a 1:66 you could go as short as 18".

OH, for the guys who are now doing the math... you have to allow for the main charge of powder, and since that varies from shooter to shooter, you take that ¼ length of the barrel twist, and add 1.5 inches then round to nearest inch. Hence a 1:48 twist rate / by four, is 12 then add 1.5 and round to nearest inch = 14. etc etc

Load would be 3Fg. 60-70 grains should be just fine out to 70 yards.

LD

 

[Africa58double]

I got the Trig and Algebra button on my Calculator… Yet ball in hand, covered with powder is about 60gr …
Should be about rite

 

[JakeGa]

Thank you, I own a T/C flintlock Pennsylvania Hunter in 50 caliber with a 1/66 twist. I was unaware they made a carbine. I will need to keep my eyes open for one of the carbines.

 

[Africa58double]

Recently on Gunbroker there was one
Otherwise very rare