Original H. E. Leman

[ToothPick]

Why doesn't this ever happen to me??? :cursing:

A friend of mine who knew I enjoyed shooting muzzle loaders asked me to look at some old guns that his co worker inherited.

Long story short, his dad was a country doctor that often took guns in lieu of cash in the 1950's-60's. Out of the bunch of guns he had, this one looked the most interesting to me.

I believe this one may be out of my price range, but I don't want to see him get totally screwed by some gun show dealer either.

I thought it was in outstanding condition and around .36 cal or so.

Since I am not a appraiser or a guy that deals with originals, I thought that I would post it here and ask for your opinions in general on the rifle and on a realistic price range he could expect, based on the pictures below.

Thanks

 

[azmntman]

Pretty piece. Not sure of value, looks WELL cared for. If it were me (or most here I believe) it would NEVER find a new home long as I lived!!

 

[MacRob46]

That appears to be an untouched, original H.E. Leman rifle. The condition is very good and if the bore is clean it might even be a shooter. The stock appears to be artificially striped, which was something Leman did on a regular basis. I don't know that it should be considered as a "trade rifle" because of its caliber and the set triggers. Leman made a huge number of guns and not all of them went west. He also made them in a number of different configurations so there is variety in patchboxes, trigger guards, butt plates, inlays, etc. The squared off lock plate is frequently found on trade guns by Leman.

Value is hard to determine for me as I am not in the antique gun market very often but based on what little information I have about recent sales of Lemans, I would think that a value of $1500 to $2000 would not be unreasonable.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The stock appears to be artificially striped, which was something Leman did on a regular basis.

Sure fools me. What makes you think it is an artificial striping job?
Even with bad bore I believe it could be rebored and not hurt value.

 

[crockett]

Dear Toothpick- this is the wrong place to ask that question. We mostly shoot replica arms for fun. What you want is gun collecting. The National Rifle Association publishes a magazine on gun collecting called "Men At Arms" and some bookstores such as Books-A-Million often stock this magazine or you could call the NRA and order a copy. This magazine has countless ads from dealers in antique arms looking for guns to list and sell. They offer appraisal services as well. In order to get top dollar- and that is a mint piece- do NOTHING to it- you need to contact one of the large dealer houses.

 

[MacRob46]

The stock appears to be artificially striped, which was something Leman did on a regular basis.

Sure fools me. What makes you think it is an artificial striping job?
Even with bad bore I believe it could be rebored and not hurt value.

I said "appears" to be. The stripes or curl if you prefer,looks to be quite even with minimal clear areas. The striping on the handful of Lemans I have seen varies a lot but the best examples were pretty even throughout. There was certainly nothing to keep Leman from using a curly maple blank to make a gun - there was plenty of it available.

 

[LaBonte]

Nope not artificially striped (and I've examined a couple hundred originals) - the figure is not anything like the faux striped ones. He got one of those Lemans that just happened to have a grade curly maple stock.

Here's a faux striped one to compare to:

the OP's original:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Yep. No comparison.

 

[hanshi]

Nothing like that ever happens to me. What a fine rifle that is. The curl looks natural to me.

 

[Zonie]

Leman used his painted on striping on his lower cost guns.

He also made higher cost rifles using real curly maple and that is what this one appears to be.

Likewise, Leman often installed simple oval shaped cap boxes but the patch box on this rifle was also used.

It's difficult to say what the real value of this gun is but I can say that a "dealer" would probably offer $200-$300 for it at best.

He would be thinking he could double or triple his investment to the right customer.

 

[MacRob46]

Gentlemen...I stand corrected. That is a curly maple stock.

 

[Dewey]

You might look at Track of the Wolf for some ideas about how much the antique guns there go for.

If your friend is going to sell it, he might get a better price selling thru TOW than some other dealers.

If it was mine, NOT FOR SALE !!!

 

[crockett]

I may be wrong but re-boring an original. I think that would markedly lower the value.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I may be wrong but re-boring an original. I think that would markedly lower the value.

Probably a highly debatable subject. Historically rifles were 'freshed' periodically. Rebore, same thing. However fussing with a museum quality or historically significant piece it would be unwise. But, just another old gun that can be put back into service, that's another matter. Some did not belive this rifle has a very high dollar value. Nothing to be lost, just a gain by reboring. IMHO :wink:

 

[galamb]

Unfortunately Leman's, which come on the market quite often (probably due to the fact the a lot were cranked out from the factory) do not go for very much money.

If you do a search right now I will bet you can find a half dozen original Leman's, all in very good or better condition, that will SELL for somewhere between 200 and 500 bucks.

Now from the pictures this one looks "nice" and could maybe fetch a little more but it's not like this is an Armstrong or a Beck.

It's a Leman that came from a "factory", and many many have survived and everybody had one.

When it's (probably) the most popular model of all time (at least in the cap gun era) the "collector" value just isn't there.

And if the collector factor is missing, it's just an "old gun" and the price usually reflects that.

 

[ToothPick]

thanks guys.

I had no idea as what to tell him, now at least I can point him in the right direction.

TP

 

[Rokon]

Reboring an original would be an utterly traditional step and should not lower its value.

Along the same lines, reconverting a percussion rifle to flintlock is not a traditional step and should lower the value of an original piece.

 

[crockett]

If you would be willing to sell me the rifle for $200-$300 let me know. :haha: