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longhunter49

Pilgrim
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
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I've always enjoyed percussion revolvers and have shot them off and on since the mid 1970s. Never used them in NCOWS style shoots but those who do usually carry a shooter's box, load the powder and ball away from the table and only cap when they get to the loading table. Just casual shooting, I do pretty much the same at local ranges.

Lately I started wondering ( I know....) how the old timers carried the fixing for their revolvers. Were multiple loaded cylinders carried commonly? Did they wear/ carry a shooting bag with caps, flask and bag of roundball/bullets? I've seen all kinds of flask holders, cap boxes and bullet pouches hung on holster belts in the old rendezvous spirit of " if they had it , they'd have used it" but never seen any detailed first hand evidence.

Does anyone have any wisdom on this?

Yes, I used to be one of those hated " thread counter" reenactors........
 
By the time revolvers were in use clothes had pockets and they were generally large pockets. I would suggest if you were to carry around loading supplies a pocket would work. Or if on horse back saddle bags would be better still. That’s just my guess.
 
What "they" used or did may have depended on exactly who they were or their expertise. The average guy did not handload back in the day any more than todays unmentionable type guns. So who do you prefer to emulate? The average guy or an advanced shooter with custom loading knowledge and custom tuned guns...c
 
Were multiple loaded cylinders carried commonly?


No. This is very much a modernism.... the desire for a "speed load". If you really needed to reload, no matter how "speedy" you were flipping cylinders around, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.

A cylinder would be something that would have to be fitted to the gun. Not cheap. There are existing cased sets where a second cylinder is with the gun.... but these were hardly everyman guns. I have yet to see or hear even the rumor of the existence of extra cylinders outside of these types of cased sets.

If you expected to need more than six shots, you carried a second (or third) gun. ;)
 
No. This is very much a modernism.... the desire for a "speed load". If you really needed to reload, no matter how "speedy" you were flipping cylinders around, it probably wouldn't be fast enough.

A cylinder would be something that would have to be fitted to the gun. Not cheap. There are existing cased sets where a second cylinder is with the gun.... but these were hardly everyman guns. I have yet to see or hear even the rumor of the existence of extra cylinders outside of these types of cased sets.

If you expected to need more than six shots, you carried a second (or third) gun. ;)
Bloody Bill Anderson was carrying 6 Colt Navy models on him when he was killed.
 
I've always enjoyed percussion revolvers and have shot them off and on since the mid 1970s. Never used them in NCOWS style shoots but those who do usually carry a shooter's box, load the powder and ball away from the table and only cap when they get to the loading table. Just casual shooting, I do pretty much the same at local ranges.

Lately I started wondering ( I know....) how the old timers carried the fixing for their revolvers. Were multiple loaded cylinders carried commonly? Did they wear/ carry a shooting bag with caps, flask and bag of roundball/bullets? I've seen all kinds of flask holders, cap boxes and bullet pouches hung on holster belts in the old rendezvous spirit of " if they had it , they'd have used it" but never seen any detailed first hand evidence.

Does anyone have any wisdom on this?

Yes, I used to be one of those hated " thread counter" reenactors........
The OP asks a very good question. I've seen multiple references to revolvers in the period literature of the pre-Civil War era and Santa Fe trade... "Six-shooters," "Colt's repeating pistol," Dragoon pistols (referring to revolvers), and Captain Marcy wrote about comparing the practicality of the Army (.44) and Navy (.36) revolvers on the frontier (he preferred the .44). I recently read an original, first-person account of a buffalo hunt with the Miami Indians in Kansas in the 1850's, and they used revolvers for that purpose. However, I can not specifically recall reading anything about reloading in the field. I think @Stophel is probably correct in that they would have been likely to carry more than one, if more shots were needed, and there are specific mentions of frontiersmen carrying pistols and/or revolvers in pairs.

The other thing, I believe, is that we modern folk, for the most part, have lost the ability to "travel light," partly because we have become very extravagant shooters. A cowboy action match in my area is typically six stages, with ten revolver, ten rifle, and any number of shotgun rounds per stage. That would be a minimum of sixty rounds with the handguns alone. Contrast this with the historical record... I remember reading about a troop of Texas Rangers in the early 1840's, charged with the responsibility of protecting the northern border, and they had a total of twenty six rounds between them.

Just to throw in my own opinion, not to be confused with historical fact, I would think a small flask with a charger top, a few loose balls, and a capper could be carried in a coat pocket or saddlebag. Grease on top of the loaded balls might have very well been omitted.

Hollywood is frequently and justifiably criticized for their depictions of frontier life in general and firearms in particular. However, they occasionally get something right. I believe there was a scene in one of the recent Civil War movies ( Ride With the Devil , or something like that, with actor Toby McGuire), which showed the Missouri guerillas frantically reloading their cap and ball revolvers during a lull in a firefight. They were holed up in a farmhouse, and I remember somebody spilled his extra balls on the wooden floor. The producer caught the sound of the balls rolling away, scattering in every direction. It was a pretty tense scene.

I read a lot of material written in the early 19th century. I'll try to pay more attention to comments about revolvers. That was a good question, and I've thought about it myself.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob
 
Who cares about historical correctness when you’ve got a rig this cool:

0A83A5F7-60A0-44F0-8F58-9A05CD4364BE.jpeg


1858 with spare cylinders pouches which can makes for a lightning fast reload in a gunfight. As seen in use by Preacher in Pale Rider.

 
Who cares about historical correctness when you’ve got a rig this cool:

View attachment 72576

1858 with spare cylinders pouches which can makes for a lightning fast reload in a gunfight. As seen in use by Preacher in Pale Rider.



I did historical reenactments for many years where everything needed first hand documentation. Researching to be correct was fun and I always took that approach. Just looking for the truth . Starting off in the rendezvous way back in the early 1970s, we all carried so much extra, unnecessary gear it was hilarious.

My intent was to see if anyone had seen any documentation reference ammo for percussion revolvers. Carrying pockets or bags filled with powder, caps, roundball, lubricant etc is not practical. Extra cylinders already loaded is extravagant and potentially dangerous. Paper cartridges are the logical choice but are fragile and not easy to transport intact.

Thanks, Walt
 
I did historical reenactments for many years where everything needed first hand documentation. Researching to be correct was fun and I always took that approach. Just looking for the truth . Starting off in the rendezvous way back in the early 1970s, we all carried so much extra, unnecessary gear it was hilarious.

My intent was to see if anyone had seen any documentation reference ammo for percussion revolvers. Carrying pockets or bags filled with powder, caps, roundball, lubricant etc is not practical. Extra cylinders already loaded is extravagant and potentially dangerous. Paper cartridges are the logical choice but are fragile and not easy to transport intact.

Thanks, Walt

Paper cartridges were made by numerous companies and were often packed snugly in form fitting wooden boxes that protected them quite well. Paper cartridges and packaging were perfected during the Civil War and would’ve been by far the most common method for carry by everyone from then up into the cartridge period. Caps were sold in tins just like nowadays or packed inside the boxes of paper cartridges for an “all in one” pocketable reload system. The military had a couple types of belt pouches for carrying boxes of revolver cartridges. Civilians would’ve carried them in a pocket or in their saddlebags. Anywhere handy.

Flasks of various sorts and scissors moulds (usually with two cavities one for round ball one for conical) were offered in cased sets from the factory or could be purchased separately. This would’ve been common in earlier times for martial and civilian usage. As for how they were carried either again in a saddle bag or pocket, a box in their wagon, etc. etc. Revolvers were seen as defensive firearms and I doubt anybody would have a dedicated bag just for carrying accesories or an elabarote setup for them as they were just not shot or used often.

On another note you often hear things like “how they heck did those guys reload those on horseback while charging through a battlefield?” and stuff like that as if there were cavalrymen charging around at full gallop while balancing their reigns and powder flask in one hand and percussion caps in the other.

This did not happen.

Ideally, the horseman carried multiple pre-loaded and capped revolvers on their person and/or the horse. They’d empty them and simply grab the next loaded gun. The “New York Reload” is centuries old. Reloads simply were not possible under the conditions mentioned above. Not now, not then. If they didn’t have extra guns available they would reload them during lulls in the battle or after falling back to their lines, using their issues paper cartridges and boxes. The cavalryman’s primary weapon was the SABER and when that wasn’t used, their secondary weapon was a carbine that COULD realistically be kept in action on horseback. Pistols were used as “shock and awe” hit and run type weapons for close range engagements.
 
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I've always enjoyed percussion revolvers and have shot them off and on since the mid 1970s. Never used them in NCOWS style shoots but those who do usually carry a shooter's box, load the powder and ball away from the table and only cap when they get to the loading table. Just casual shooting, I do pretty much the same at local ranges.

Lately I started wondering ( I know....) how the old timers carried the fixing for their revolvers. Were multiple loaded cylinders carried commonly? Did they wear/ carry a shooting bag with caps, flask and bag of roundball/bullets? I've seen all kinds of flask holders, cap boxes and bullet pouches hung on holster belts in the old rendezvous spirit of " if they had it , they'd have used it" but never seen any detailed first hand evidence.

Does anyone have any wisdom on this?

Yes, I used to be one of those hated " thread counter" reenactors........

No extra loaded cylinders.

It would depend on the situation.
Some people never carried anything to reload with unless there was a strong chance of a hostile encounter with Indians or outlaws, in which case they would have likely had a long gun of some sort on hand as the primary weapon anyway.
I know from personal experience that pocket carry with the right sort of clothes is by far the easiest way to carry extra components to reload percussion revolvers with while engaged in normal activities ( cutting wood, fixing fence, shoveling anything, etc ).
Victorian and a little later clothing styles were far more conducive to carrying things in pockets than more modern styles, for the most part. Wool or cotton vests with good pockets are hard to beat for carrying stuff to reload revolvers with, but I rarely see anyone but me wearing one.
 
No extra loaded cylinders.

It would depend on the situation.
Some people never carried anything to reload with unless there was a strong chance of a hostile encounter with Indians or outlaws, in which case they would have likely had a long gun of some sort on hand as the primary weapon anyway.
I know from personal experience that pocket carry with the right sort of clothes is by far the easiest way to carry extra components to reload percussion revolvers with while engaged in normal activities ( cutting wood, fixing fence, shoveling anything, etc ).
Victorian and a little later clothing styles were far more conducive to carrying things in pockets than more modern styles, for the most part. Wool or cotton vests with good pockets are hard to beat for carrying stuff to reload revolvers with, but I rarely see anyone but me wearing one.

Carrying a gun is generally a PITA of varying degrees, especially when considering examples of the weight and sizes available in the old days before titanium, polymer, and aluminum were used for firearms.
Bottom line is that few carried a gun and components to reload it with unless the probability of needing it was pretty high.
 
I think most pistols that were regularly carried by civilians were loaded at home with nothing extra carried to reload. Sometimes on though compartmented pocket flasks were used like this one: one place for powder, caps and balls.
 

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I would think that anyone from the 18th & 19th century (even most of the 20th century) would be stunned at the amount of tools, accouterments, shot, powder, and cleaning supplies that most all have acquired now and think necessary. Back then, they got by on a Lot less and made due.
And from what I've read, once cap & ball revolvers were in use, most would go to the general store and buy a box of paper cartridges. Which they didn't waste.
 
I’ve researched the cap and ball pistol era in Australia for many years and have found no reference to using spare cylinders but there is documented evidence that multiple pistols were sometimes carried, especially by bushrangers, two on the saddle, two in flap holsters and two thrust into the trouser tops under the waist belt.
This may well reflect American practice to some extent as many Americans came to our shores during the Gold Rush years.
From about the age of twelve onwards I talked to men who had carried c&b and single/double barrelled pistols, up until about 1900 ( when they could afford a more modern gun) and they didn’t usually carry spare ammo, except, if going bush for some time, they kept their pistols loaded and it was common practice to waterproof the caps by giving a good coat of shellac over cap and nipple.
 
Loose powder poured into chambers with a flask was commonly used from the 1830's to the 1850's, the Walker was loaded with a flask and a loose Pickett bullet. By the time the Dragoons came out, the non-combustible cartridges which were basically a mini musket cartridge, were being sold or issued in the military setting, and also nitrate paper cartridges were firmly in use by the 1850's.

I'm sure Civilians, no doubt, used loose powder and balls/bullets and like was said they loaded them at home and just carried the gun . If a ranch hand or someone who carried a revolver for protection against dangerous animals, or bandits, or whatever didn't have access to packs of 6 Nitrated Cartridges I'm sure he'd have a flask, balls and caps in his saddle bag. Pretty much any hardware store etc would have carried combustible cartridge packs and people didn't shoot a lot, if you were just an average guy. So you loaded your gun and a few 6-packs of cartridges likely lasted a while. I imagine carrying loose components was rare by the 1850's.

Extra Cylinders were most highly likely hardly ever used unless, you bought a cased revolver that came with a fitted and numbered extra cylinder. I have seen original Pattersons and Navies with matching spare cylinders, so a gentleman out in the field could carry a loaded cylinder in a coat pocket. But this would be a very rare exception of a gun that was likely ordered like that and thus, extra $$ that most people aren't spending.

The majority of average people didn't even bother to carry a gun, didn't want to buy one, or just maybe had a revolver at home for defense. Little knockoff .31's and .36's besides Colts were available like Manhattans and they were loaded and just dropped in a pocket. Slingin lead out of a percussion hogleg was a rare occurrence , and even documented journal entries and letters home by Officers in the Civil War detailed that reloading their revolvers in combat wasn't common. The US and CS issued combustible paper cartridges in great numbers.

Carrying more than 1 gun was uncommon, in reality unless you were a Cavalryman issued a Brace of revolvers. These guys carrying 6 or more wheelguns likely did so in preparation for a raid, assault, battle etc I just don't see Joe Average walking around with a pair of revolvers. There was just no need, you'd probably get made fun of for carrying 2 guns like you were a wannabe Bill Hickok ............and it's extra weight and $$ spent to buy and carry a 2nd revolver to work on a ranch, walk around town or go to the store for supplies.

I don't see guys walking around with a pouch on their belt with flasks and balls , the flask pictured above is cool but not many like this were likely carried around.

I try to put myself in the period and think, what would a guy like me do in 1867 or something. I'd probably load my little Colt Pocket .31 with 5 balls and keep it in my pocket for taking my family to the theater, or going out to buy stuff. I wouldn't be carrying a flask and balls, like what am I really shooting at out there that would require a reload , entailing a pocket full of manure I'll never need as John Q Average going about my day

As much as we love percussion revolvers, it is plainly apparent what a giant leap the metallic cartridge was, and why anyone with even a remote chance of needing to fire a shot in anger got their hands on a cartridge revolver or had their hogleg converted as soon as possible. Being able to just dump 5 or 6 cartridges in a pocket for a quick reload is a huge thing. I can only imagine being a guy who carried guns for a living, like a professional Soldier, and turning in my 1860 Army and receiving an 1873 Model P.....it would be cutting edge technology to me. Just like the guys who gave up a pair of single shot pistols for a pair of Dragoons in the 1840s.


Percussion revolvers were used for such a relatively short period , and by the 1850's the rimfire cartridges were out, plus Pinfires were big in Europe. If not for the Rollin White patent, Colt, Remington and others would have been out of the percussion revolver business and into cartridge guns much sooner. So by the time the peak of percussion revolver tech was developed with guns like the 60 Army, 58 Remington, Starr DA, etc this technology was largely obsolete and people just used percussion revolvers out of necessity until the 1870's and beyond.
 
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Loose powder poured into chambers with a flask was commonly used from the 1830's to the 1850's, the Walker was loaded with a flask and a loose Pickett bullet. By the time the Dragoons came out, the non-combustible cartridges which were basically a mini musket cartridge, were being sold or issued in the military setting, and also nitrate paper cartridges were firmly in use by the 1850's.

I'm sure Civilians, no doubt, used loose powder and balls/bullets and like was said they loaded them at home and just carried the gun . If a ranch hand or someone who carried a revolver for protection against dangerous animals, or bandits, or whatever didn't have access to packs of 6 Nitrated Cartridges I'm sure he'd have a flask, balls and caps in his saddle bag. Pretty much any hardware store etc would have carried combustible cartridge packs and people didn't shoot a lot, if you were just an average guy. So you loaded your gun and a few 6-packs of cartridges likely lasted a while. I imagine carrying loose components was rare by the 1850's.

Extra Cylinders were most highly likely hardly ever used unless, you bought a cased revolver that came with a fitted and numbered extra cylinder. I have seen original Pattersons and Navies with matching spare cylinders, so a gentleman out in the field could carry a loaded cylinder in a coat pocket. But this would be a very rare exception of a gun that was likely ordered like that and thus, extra $$ that most people aren't spending.

The majority of average people didn't even bother to carry a gun, didn't want to buy one, or just maybe had a revolver at home for defense. Little knockoff .31's and .36's besides Colts were available like Manhattans and they were loaded and just dropped in a pocket. Slingin lead out of a percussion hogleg was a rare occurrence , and even documented journal entries and letters home by Officers in the Civil War detailed that reloading their revolvers in combat wasn't common. The US and CS issued combustible paper cartridges in great numbers.

Carrying more than 1 gun was uncommon, in reality unless you were a Cavalryman issued a Brace of revolvers. These guys carrying 6 or more wheelguns likely did so in preparation for a raid, assault, battle etc I just don't see Joe Average walking around with a pair of revolvers. There was just no need, you'd probably get made fun of for carrying 2 guns like you were a wannabe Bill Hickok ............and it's extra weight and $$ spent to buy and carry a 2nd revolver to work on a ranch, walk around town or go to the store for supplies.

I don't see guys walking around with a pouch on their belt with flasks and balls , the flask pictured above is cool but not many like this were likely carried around.

I try to put myself in the period and think, what would a guy like me do in 1867 or something. I'd probably load my little Colt Pocket .31 with 5 balls and keep it in my pocket for taking my family to the theater, or going out to buy stuff. I wouldn't be carrying a flask and balls, like what am I really shooting at out there that would require a reload , entailing a pocket full of manure I'll never need as John Q Average going about my day

As much as we love percussion revolvers, it is plainly apparent what a giant leap the metallic cartridge was, and why anyone with even a remote chance of needing to fire a shot in anger got their hands on a cartridge revolver or had their hogleg converted as soon as possible. Being able to just dump 5 or 6 cartridges in a pocket for a quick reload is a huge thing. I can only imagine being a guy who carried guns for a living, like a professional Soldier, and turning in my 1860 Army and receiving an 1873 Model P.....it would be cutting edge technology to me. Just like the guys who gave up a pair of single shot pistols for a pair of Dragoons in the 1840s.


Percussion revolvers were used for such a relatively short period , and by the 1850's the rimfire cartridges were out, plus Pinfires were big in Europe. If not for the Rollin White patent, Colt, Remington and others would have been out of the percussion revolver business and into cartridge guns much sooner. So by the time the peak of percussion revolver tech was developed with guns like the 60 Army, 58 Remington, Starr DA, etc this technology was largely obsolete and people just used percussion revolvers out of necessity until the 1870's and beyond.

Almost no one would have carried a pair of pistols. Too much weight and bother.
Percussion revolvers were in use for longer than most people think; close to 30 years. From the 1840’s through the 1880’s.
Not everybody ditched their percussion guns for metallic cartridge guns as soon as the newer ones came out.
 
Almost no one would have carried a pair of pistols. Too much weight and bother.
Percussion revolvers were in use for longer than most people think; close to 30 years. From the 1840’s through the 1880’s.
Not everybody ditched their percussion guns for metallic cartridge guns as soon as the newer ones came out.
Apparently Buffalo Bill used his percussion, never converted 1858 Remington until 1903 and Skeeter Skelton was shooting original 51 Navies with Civil War vets in the 1930s because they liked them, they were cheap to shoot and they were familiar with them ......so I feel like percussion revolvers never stopped being used out of necessity or recreation

My first home defense gun was an Armi San Marco 1860 Army quickly followed by a Pietta .44 brasser , because I was a broke college kid from out of state and didnt want to mess with "real guns that needed paperwork "

9/11 happened while I was a college student and I was working as a security guard at a chemical plant part time, and they got us nervous about terror attacks on the chemical plants so me being a dumb kid, I kept a loaded hogleg in my truck "just in case " which was probably somewhat less than 100% legal.

So, if someone attacked my chemical plant I'd have grabbed my 60 Army and gave em hell because, sometimes you gotta use what you got
 
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