Original makers' production numbers

[Col. Batguano]

Do we have any sort of reliable date regarding the more famous makers of the period's production numbers? The famous ones (like Beck, Armstrong, Moll, Young, Springs, Haga, Haines, Dickert et. al.) were in business for a long time, and no doubt their apprentices turned out a lot of them. But without the leverage of machines and specific tooling for a mass-produced gun (like a stock duplicating machine), I doubt they were a lot faster than we are today.

 

[Ken Cormier]

IMHO I do not think that could not been have figured out with out the personal records of the makers. Those guys were very innovative they made guns for a living as a few makers do now. It is my thoughts are these guys had a bunch of guys making parts for them. They also worked on a different work day. They worked as long as they had natural light.
If I was going to set up a production shop in a non power setting I would hire as many craftsmen as I could in an a assembly line setting. As I am sure they did. Just my thoughts.

 

[nchawkeye]

The Moravians in Salem kept pretty good records as well as the gunshop at Christian Springs...In some of the sessions I have been to I have heard about a rifle a month thrown around...Many of these shops only had 2-3 gunsmiths or a master and an apprentice or 2...

 

[galamb]

I can give you a couple of numbers for a specific year.

The first pair of numbers are from the shop of Sam Hawken.

According to the 1820 Industrial Census - Sam, while working in his shop in Xenia, Ohio, built 21 rifles valued at $420 and made $300 in rifle repairs. He had one "hand" (employee) who was paid $20/month.

So "maybe" he could produce 3 rifles a month if doing no repairs or other work (a guess) - the average would be 1.75 per month.

Now onto the 1850 Industrial Census when Sam was in St. Louis, the year after Jake's death.

He had four (4) employees on the payroll ($120/month) and between the five of them they produced 100 "handmade" rifles and 20 shotguns valued at $2700 ($22.50 average cost per gun).

In this case they produced, on average, 10 firearms per month or 2 per employee "on average".

The second set of numbers is further spanning and come from the shop of John and Caleb Vincent.
(side note - John was primarily a farmer with gunsmith business being secondary according to notes I have).

Anyhow, here are the number for years 1848 thru 1863 (when it appears John stopped building and Caleb set off on his own):

1848 - 18 rifles, 1849 - 3 rifles, 1850 - 2 rifles, 1851 - no rifles, 1852 - 7 rifles/1 pistol, 1853 - 7 rifles, 1854 - 14 rifles, 1855 - 8 rifles, 1856 - 11 rifles, 1857 - 8 rifles, 1858 - 10 rifles, 1859 - 13 rifles, 1860 - 1 rifle, 1861 - 5 rifles, 1862 - 5 rifles, 1863 - 4 rifles.

They also built 20 spinning wheels in that time frame and repaired an untold number of rifles.

(side note - from the TOTW catalog you might think that a "VINCENT" is the essence of an Ohio rifle. From their numbers they were neither common nor prolific compared to many other Ohio builders - something to consider when an Ohio rifle comes to mind)

Notes I have from Journals Caleb kept indicate strongly that for every rifle they "built" they restocked about 3.

So they were busy, but rifle building took a back seat to repairing and restocking existing rifles.

This kinda makes sense given the years they operated in.

Plus, John served during the civil war with a militia unit which is possibly a reason for the drop in production from 1860 onward.

John is not known to have built a rifle after 1863. Caleb kept horrible records, so post 1863 numbers for Vincent rifles is pretty much non-existent.

They had no employees so their numbers reflect one or two workers (depending how much time John spent running the farm on any given day).

Their best year, 1848, with 18 rifles looks similar to Sam Hawken's numbers of 1820, with one employee - so possibly indicative of speed of production for a pair of workers.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Great data.

I've been to the gun shop at Harper's Ferry WV. Did the old timey named maker guys have any of the stock duplicating stuff like they used at Harper's Ferry or Springfield?

I suppose it was a function of sales. I imagine these guys made as many as they could sell, rather than sold as many as they could make. It's not like the big name custom guys of today, that have backlogs of orders for years and years.

 

[Coot]

Blanchard (who worked at Springfield) is credited with inventing the duplicating lathe in 1818. Prior to that time, all stocks would have been made by hand whether at a national armory of a small maker. Considering the expense & complexity of the duplicating lathes, many small makers doubtless continued making stocks by hand for many years after 1818, just as many custom builders do today. I believe that Clay Smith uses a type of Blanchard today to make stocks for his trade gun kits.

 

[Dean2]

That is very interesting information. For some reason I thought production of some of the more famous builders, particularly the Hawken boys, would have been significantly higher than what the numbers are showing. It really does make me wonder if the production levels were a result of limited demand for new guns, with a much heavier demand for repairs, restocking etc., or simply that was all they could put out.

 

[blackdog of vt]

Christian Oerter made around 16 a year at Christians Spring. I'm sure Dickert may have done more during the rev and certainly more when he paired with Gill. I'm not sure when he got into duplicating stocks but paired with his barrel mill and shop he could have cranked them out.

 

[Coot]

James Gill died in 1796 and Jacob Dickert in 1822, so they were both gone before the duplicating lathe came into being. Gill's son/grandsons? did continue making guns, marked I believe as "B D Gill".

 

[Zonie]

In the University of Connecticut Librarys web posting about American Gunmakers, they say this about B.D.Gill

"GILL, B. D. ”” Pennsylvania; late flintlock and early percussion Ken-
tucky rifles. Heavy flintlock rifle stamped D. B. Gill with crossed
arrow and tomahawk, given by Kit Carson to a Taos Indian in
1848. "

That site has a bunch of interesting stuff about hundreds of American Gunmakers. Here's a link
http://archive.org/stream/gunmaker00satt/gunmaker00satt_djvu.txt

 

[Captjoel]

There are a few ledger books in existence dealing with gunsmith production. One such ledger is from the shop of Leonard Reedy and is presented in the book "The Pennsylvania Kentucky Rifle" by Henry Kauffman. You will find a page from this ledger written in Reedy's own hand on page 150 written in 1825. I do not know if what is listed is typical of most gunsmiths, but most of the work done had to do with repairs, many of such were not even gun related. Kind of a "fix it" shop. A good gunsmith was also a good handy man and in these small PA villages the townsfolk would depend on these skills for many things. It was after all first and foremost, a living carved out from their work and reputation. Many early gunsmiths also had farms to run and other documented occupations. Reedy himself was the towns justice of the peace. It must be remembered that any rifle made was built entirely by hand and not machined out on an assembly line as they were in later days. The numbers were limited to the area's needs as well as the abilities of the individual smith and his few apprentices.

 

[blackdog of vt]

That is Benjamin Gill, not James, Dickerts grandson, who he apprenticed with and carried the business name. They had a lot of employees so not exactly one off guns anymore. "Gill pattern" comes up in JJ Henry records and AFco too so you get an idea of their influence. In 1826 JJ Henry sold 140 to them so not exactly mom and pop operation.

 

[Dphar]

There are a lot of factors. There were times when the Hawken shop could not make enough guns. The financial state of the economy has an effect. Then remember that by the 1830s the makers were contending with factory mades from PA. Henry and Leman etc.
The Hawken brothers charged quite a bit more for there "Mountain" rifles than almost anyone else but they still sold quite a few rifles. Given the survival rate they must have made quite a few over the years. I suspect that if they worked hard in the summer and had the orders a good stocker could 2 a couple of guns a month depending on how much decoration they might have. The Hawken brothers were skilled and knew how to make things since they both worked at HF. Planes and scrapers will move a lot of wood quickly and were made to cut contours and barrel channels. They rough shaped stocks with small axes and draw knives. I have a large chisel that on walnut will move a lot of wood and leave a nice shiny finish when pushed along the grain. Hard maple may require driving it with a mallet and usually rought shape with a fishtail gouge about 3/4 wide on maple. Much faster than even a cabinet makers rasp.
I think that if they were just stocking guns and rifling barrels a stocker could make a couple of guns a month. Most makers bought locks, hardware, barrel blanks and there is some evidence that roughed out stocks might have been used too. Rough shape no barrel or other cuts made. DEPENDING ON THE TIME OF THE YEAR and how much daylight they had. They did not have electric lights.
How many they could make was tied to how many they NEEDED to make. I suspect that the Hawkens kept guns in stock, but they were in an area that was pretty busy relative to makers like the Vincents and others away from economic choke points and major supply points for the frontier.
Repair work was constant, many American guns were made with low quality import locks, stocks are frighteningly easy to break. Restocks were essentially making a new gun. May have even been marked by the maker like any other that came from their shop. Repair was just one source of income. So long as they were making a profit with some left over for saving I doubt they worried about how many guns they made unless they had more orders than they could fill.

Dan