original musket

[brubincam]

if a old musket has the barrel and lock replaced with new ones--can it still be called "ORIGINAL"

 

[rabjr]

Not in my book no.

 

[Claude Mathis]

if a old musket has the barrel and lock replaced with new ones--can it still be called "ORIGINAL"

I'm sure you've heard the story about the guy who has Daniel Boone's (original) tomahawk?

The head has only been replaced once and the handle twice. :wink:

 

[brubincam]

-----didn't think so-----

 

[J.D.]

I guess it would depend on your definition of "original." Or maybe the definition of "authentic" handed down by a state agency, such as the DNR.

Or,it could depend on what your definition of "is" is.

Sorry 'bout that, kinda sorta. :v
With the controversy on the Define "Traditional" vs "Period Correct" thread, I couldn't help myself.

 

[rabjr]

I'm guessin this may have something to do with the gun in the classifieds? To be fair, the seller did state "Restored Original" and goes on to say what work was done to it.

 

[pichou]

Without the other original parts, it's just parts. You have a original stock with furniture, not a original gun.

I would say you have a reproduction gun, since the lock and barrel are what makes it a firearm.

 

Without the other original parts, it's just parts. You have a original stock with furniture, not a original gun.

I would say you have a reproduction gun, since the lock and barrel are what makes it a firearm.

I agree. Calling something a "Restored Original" makes little sense. (restored means not original)

 

[rice1817]

Saw an auction the other day for a Bean Rifle. Looked into it and saw that it had an original 1823 Bean signed barrel on it, but the rest was a restoration from modern parts.

Which is more "original", the CW rifle with the orginal stock and furniture but new lock and barrel, or the one with the original barrel and repro parts?

 

[rabjr]

The point I was trying to make is the gun in the classifieds was never said to be "ORIGINAL".

 

[Claude Mathis]

Saw an auction the other day for a Bean Rifle. Looked into it and saw that it had an original 1823 Bean signed barrel on it, but the rest was a restoration from modern parts.

Which is more "original", the CW rifle with the orginal stock and furniture but new lock and barrel, or the one with the original barrel and repro parts?

In my opinion, you either have an original firearm, or you have some original parts. Big difference.

If you are calling something "restored", you simply make clear what parts are original and leave it up to the buyer/viewer to decide it's worth.

 

[tg]

I don't know where the collectors draw the line there are quite a few guns in RCA that have new replacement locks and other hardware and rebuilt stocks starting with only a part of the original wood.

 

[Tumblernotch]

if a old musket has the barrel and lock replaced with new ones--can it still be called "ORIGINAL"

That all depends on when those parts were replaced. Most muskets that have seen service have been damaged or service related wear that required some part to be replaced. I have seen several references to battlefield pick-ups, captured arms, &c., where it was reported that they were sent to the various arenals to be repaired. This included locks, stocks and barrels. Many ramrods were fired at the enemy which required the replacement of ramrods. Nipples wore out. This practice continues. In one of Ernie Pyle's books, he describes field armorers in Normandy doing the same work on M1's. I'd say if the replacement was done within the period the weapon was used, that gun is still original although its value would be somewhat less than a 100% gun. And in some cases, one can't tell the difference, at least on pre-serial number pieces. However, most barrels and all locks have dates stamped on them and you will often see mis-matched locks and barrels on US muskets.

Now, if the parts were changed at a later time, that's a different story. For instance, I picked up what appeared to be an 1863 Type 2 Springfield in a trade. We traded at night with only a lantern to see by. I could see that it had a reproduction middle band and ramrod, but other than that, everything else was original. By the light of day, I could see that I had a Colt barrel (worn out) mounted on an M1861 stock. When I got home, I purchased an 1861 Watertown contract musket for parts. It was all original, including the ramrod, but the stock was a wreck and the lockplate was broken. I put the SF barrel, lock and buttplate on the Watertown stock, retaining the bands and bandsprings. The hammer from the Watertown lock was put on the SF lock. This 1863 dated lock was a late M1861 lock. Thus, I ended up with what would be called a "salvaged" Springfield rifle-musket; that is, if this procedure was done during the War. Doing it in the 1980's, I ended up with a "Parts Gun". I used all original parts, not a new one anywhere, but it's still a parts gun, though still serviceable as a shooter or re-enactor piece. Any reproduction parts will definitely reduce the value. The important thing to remember is it's ethically wrong to pass off a parts gun as original. That would be hard to do if the buyer is well acquainted with the type of weapon you're selling. If you're buying, make sure you know what to look for. Know the characteristics or the standards of that weapon. Know your markings and what dates stamped on the gun go with what models. If you can get by with a parts gun, just make sure you don't pay a premium for it.

:thumbsup:

 

[flintlockmdj]

Original - NO original would be all parts produced in the same time period.

Restored - would denote an early gun that was repaired with modern replacement parts or new unused period parts.

Reproduction - would denote produced from new parts made in the style of an original or psuedo original gun.

Custom - Is a gun that is made to the specifications of the purchaser not necessarily ot any particular school.

My 2d worth. :wink:

 

[Mulebrain]

Original, is off the shop floor, and unmodified!

A gun can be a used original, no problem with that.

Now when we start changing parts the web gets much bigger. The descriptions could be endless!

Like original gun with correct parts etc....

It is really up to the individual to state what is what.

If any parts get changed, it is not original.

 

[Tumblernotch]

If you are buying or selling an old gun and have doubts, you can consult the NRA standards for antique arms. If you have an edition of Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms, you can find some good info about this in the front of the book. It covers collecting, grading, restoration, fakes, ethics &c. It's good reading and may save you some money.
:thumbsup: