Overshot wad

[Austringer]

Hi, I have always used a thin(1/32in) card as overshot wad, this fine on the clay ground, but shortly (1st September) I was planning to use my side by side 12gauge ML for walked up partridge, and I fear that I may lose the shot load when carrying the gun muzzle down for long periods - so does any one have experience of using hard thick(1/8in)overshot card? I use these for overpowder wad underneath a cushion wad below the shot and these are a nice tight fit requiring lots of pressure to seat down the muzzle and would not move.

 

[Austringer]

OOoops!! I think we already had a similar thread on th 17th - that's what they call "Old Timers(Altzeimer's)disease methinks!!

 

[Lorne Johnson]

It depends on a lot of factors, such as how tightly the wad fits, and how you hold your gun when hunting. You can check this in the field by running the ramrod down the barrel to see if the wad is coming loose (after removing the caps, or uncocking you flintlock, of course).

If the load is coming loose, a quick fix is to add a second overshot card. Another fix is to move up a gauge (down in number) in card size.

 

[Rifleman1776]

You illustrate one of the major reasons I got rid of my SxS perc. shotgun. The unfired charge will dislodge unless you epoxy it in place. (not reccomended) Pulling the cap, often ruining and wasting it, to reseat is not my idea of fun. And, I really-really don't like the idea of reseating a barrel while charged. Double ML shotguns are not one of the bright spots in the evolution of firearms history. OK....IMHO.

 

[shortbow]

I can't really add anything here but to agree with Rifleman about re-seating the second charge. I have a nice old original double 13 gauge which I enjoy shooting, but I never re-seat the second barrel because I don't have any intention of taking the cap off to make sure the process is safe.

I've often wondered about the double percussion gun. The only reason to have the second barrel is to give the hunter a second whack at a bird he's missed or to get another bird out of a covey. But all the modern stuff on double guns says you must re-seat, which wrecks the whole idea of even having the second shot loaded.

To me, this all means that back in the day, re-seating wasn't even thought of, but them old guys weren't stupid, so they undoubtedly knew a way to load both barrels in a way that made certain the second load would not dislodge without blowing patterns. Seems to me all we gotta do is figure out how they did that.

For myself, it's something I would sure like to know.

 

[tg]

A bit of thick lube on the os card might help, I always keep the bore up myself, but my gun only has one tube which is another option,just load one side and leave more birds for nest time

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have hunted many days with my percussion Dbl, and have repeated checked the second barrel to make sure the load has NOT moved in recoil when the first barrel is fired. It has NEVER happened.

I don't understand why people FEAR removing a live cap from a nipple. I have had to do this dozens of times, particularly at the firing line when some problem with another shooter's gun cause the range officer to call the line closed.

When hunting, and I take the only bird flying with one shot, I not only remove the cap in the field from the unfired barrel, but I run my ramrod down the loaded barrel to hold it while I am putting new components down the fired barrel. The gun I hold between my knees.

My percussion gun is a CVA 12 gauge CB shotgun. I have used single cards, and 2 OS cards( shirt-back cardboard) just to see if they blow my patterns at all using the two of them, and found no difference in patterns. Neither have the wads moved in recoil.

I suspect this old wives tale is the result of some shooters who have over-bore diameter barrel(s), and are using standard size wads and cards.

My Fowler is suppose to be 20 gauge, but it actually measures closer to 19 gauge! :shocked2: It was given to me as a birthday present by my brother, along with 20 gauge wads and cards. We found out the problems the first time we shot the gun. We had to order new 19 gauge OP wads, and OS cards, before the guns shot satisfactory. With the 19 gauge card in place I can turn the muzzle down, and shake that gun up and down, and the load does Not MOVE!

So the advise already given- either use the next larger bore diameter cards, or double up your cards( if not that much overbore) works.

You have to actually MEASURE your bore diameter to answer the question for EVERY GUN. This is one time when "doing it the way others do it" simply is not very good advice. Do NOT rely on what is stamped on the barrel in ordering your wads and cards. :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[Dave K]

Exactly! Though you have been told or the barrels even measure a certain gauge, you should still fit the components to the gun. I too, have used 19ga. components in a 20ga. or 13ga. components in my 14ga. Since I am a shotgun/fowler enthusiast, I do have components of ever size from 10ga. to 24ga. If you go to Friendship the one dealer there has sample packs so you can try each size out in your gun and see what fits best. Of course I also buy all my components from him as well.

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Like Paul (and Dave?), I have NEVER had a charge shift or an O/S card move with 16ga components in my 16ga double (happens to be the proper fit), even with repeated firing of the same barrel as a test. Since it's a flinter, dumping the prime on my unfired barrel is a trivial effort, with a loss of ~3/4 of a cent's worth of powder. However, since I seldom get a second shot, anyway, (except at waterfowl, crows, or pigeons), I will as often as not just wait 'til I've fired the second barrel before reloading.

Regards,
Joel

 

[George]

Like Paul (and Dave?), I have NEVER had a charge shift or an O/S card move with 16ga components in my 16ga double (happens to be the proper fit), even with repeated firing of the same barrel as a test.

I've used double guns a fair amount and never found a shifting load in the second barrel to be a problem. I never check it, because I'm not afraid of it.

I think people make far too big a thing out of the possibility because it doesn't work they way they imagine. It seems that people believe a shifted charge creates an obstructed bore and the danger of a burst barrel. I don't think that is the case. By far the heaviest part of the charge is the shot, and only the overshot card is holding it in place. If any shifting takes place it's only the pellets and the overshot card which move, not the overpowder wad. You then have the shot in a larger space, and it won't stay in a compact mass, it will lie loose on the bottom of the bore, with space above it. If you fire the gun in that condition, it just blows the overshot card out of the way and a lot of the gasses escape. You will know it has happened, because you get a big whoosh, low recoil and a strange, hollow, reverberating sound. I had that happen once, and it was obvious what was going on.

In his book The art of Shooting Flying, 1767, Thomas Page described the problem and the sensation you get when it happens perfectly:

"After some experience you will find, if your gun is clean, and the wad thrust but lightly down, that in walking the shot will be apt to get loose: and if you discharge the piece in that state, it will seem, by the small resistance it makes as if there were no shot in it:"

Spence

 

[410-er]

Never had a charge shift here on any of the 3 doubles.(11ga,20ga.,and 14ga)Gotta measure and get the right size components.
I use my 2nd barrel as the next shot.Doesn't get capped till 1st barrel is fired.No reloading till both are fired.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have hunted with single barrel ml shotguns since the sixties, and a double since 73. I have never had a problem with the shot charge needing "reset". I don't use an over shot card or wad! What I use is a newspaper shot cartridge rolled and folded like a civil war paper cartridge. :hmm: