Ox-Yoke Ticking w/1000+ Lube

[deanscamaro]

I found an interesting article as I was pursuing my newbie education today. I went into Track of the Wolf to look at their "New Products in the Last 30 Days" and saw that "Virginia Longrifle in the style of Andrew Eaby" at $3369 (really nice). Looks like a great gun and as I was reading through the description, I saw they recommended using Ox-Yoke Ticking Patches. Being a newbie and not having heard of them, I Googled them and got websites selling the line (i.e. Starr, Thunder Ridge, etc.). I also got the following interesting website telling history/assessment of the subject product in their line:
http://www.xmission.com/~drudy/hist_text-arch5/msg00973.html

This is something that makes me question all of the product claims out there. I'm sure you old timers have read this before, but I would like to understand your positions.
:bull: :bull: or :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...but I would like to understand your positions..."(ref oxyoke ticking and wonderlube 1000)

Oxyoke manufactured a lube called Wonderlube 1000 and they also manufactured shooting patches prelubed with it. From there they went on to arrange contractual dealings with TC who sells it under the name of Natural Lube 1000, and with some other ML companies such as CVA, Traditions, and even Remington during the 90's.

I've used Natural Lube 1000 as a bore and patch lube for about 17 years now and it works exactly as the tests advertise...ie: I have been shooting 50 shot range session for almost 10 years and do so without wiping between shots...BUT...let me explain the why & how that happens.

What the advertising about the lubes does not point out is the effects of and the requirement for moisture to successfully complete such tests....there must be mid to high humidity for those repeated tests to work...and guys like those in the article you linked didn't realize that, ran some tests when the humidity happened to be low, had problems, and erroneously concluded that the lube doesn't work and abandoned it totally as if the advertisements are a complete falsehood...not so.

To make repeated shots without wiping the fouling out between shots, one shot’s worth of fouling has to remain so soft that when the next patched ball is seated, the tight fitting patch wipes the soft fouling off the bore walls and pushes it down, depositing it on top of the powder charge.

Then that first shot's worth of fouling is ejected with the 2nd shot out of the bore, leaving a new fresh single shot's worth of fouling on the bore walls again...then the cycle is repeated for the 3rd shot, the 4th...50th...100th...etc...for as many shots as you want, providing the fouling stays so soft there's never more than one shot's worth of fouling in the bore at any given time.
BUT...in order for fouling to stay so soft that it can be wiped off by the next PRB, there has to be at least a certain amount of moisture in the bore to keep the fouling from drying and hardening up...keep that bore moist and you can just shoot all day using the wonder lube / natural lube type products no matter what time of year it is.

AND...to get that amount of moisture into the bore one of two things has to happen:
1) Do your shooting in mid to high humidity conditions so as soon as a shot is finished, the moisture in humid air is immediately sucked into the bore and keeps the fouling soft;
2) Or, use a semi-liquid to liquid type lube in the first place so the bore always has moisture in it.

For example, I've learned from personal experience here in NC that from spring until fall I can shoot my 50 shots range sessions using Oxyoke or TCs prelubed patches without wiping between shots because the humidity here is mid to high during those months and the bore gets all the moisture it needs to keep the fouling 100% soft.

But from the fall on around to the spring again the colder winter months bring low humidity, dry air and I can't shoot more than 8-10 shots without needing to wipe the bore because the fouling stays hard and gradually builds up due to lack of moisture and it doesn't all get wiped off the walls by each successive PRB..that's what the guys in your article experienced.

During these dry/low humidity months I switch to Hoppes No9 PLUS BP Solvent & Patch Lube which is a thick liquid...and shoot my 50 shot sessions without wiping between them just like I do with NL1000 patches in the high humidity months of summer...the key to it all is moisture.

Now for hunting, I happen to use NL1000 patches regardless of weather conditions because it doesn't affect powder and I'm not shooting 50 shots at a time, etc.

So yes, the wonder type lube products are excellent and will perform as advertised...they just should have been more forthcoming and included the caveat about needing mid to high humidity shooting conditions to do that. Sort of like using different weights of oil in your car during the hot summer months compared to the cold winter months.

 

[renovato]

Some people swear by them, others hate them. Me, I hate a con with a bloody passion, so whether the product works or not is irrelevent. I won't give them a dime. That's my take on it. Besides, there are a zillion other lubes that work, from store bought to homemade. I use Ballistol and water and it works well for me, I've also used Hoppe's lube and solvent and it worked fine for 20 some years of muzzleloading.

 

[Swampman]

I'm sure it's a fine lube, most are. For the most part any money spent on "commerical muzzloading specific" cleaners and lubes is completely & totally wasted.

Go look in the kitchen. It's already there, and it works much much better.

I don't get free stuff for endorsing olive oil & Windex/windshield washer fluid.

I have some commerical stuff right now(a gift)that is nothing but that (rebottled in little bottles) and sold at shoots for 10 times what it cost in the market.

Don't waste your money.

 

[J.D.]

I Don't know Mike Pierce all that well, but I know him well enough to know that he knows what he is talking about. If Mike says the yellow miracle lubes are chapstick, then they are chapstick.

Another long time BP shooter who is also a chemist concurs with Mike's conclusions of the yellow miracle lubes, based on his own research.

And yes, I do remember the "miracle lube wars" when the hype was hitting the fan, so to speak...and the hype hasn't let up one bit.

Unfortunately, in my area, humidity varies as much as 40-50 points on a day by day basis. IF humidity is indeed the determining factor in how well the yellow miracle lubes work, the effectivness will vary with the wildly fluctuating humidity. IMHO, that is waaaaaaayyyy too much variation in effectiveness of a patch lube to suit me.

Since I sometimes fire 10-12 shots a day when chasing small game, I much prefer a hunting patch lube that allows more than a coupla shots per day without wiping.

Personally, I like mutton tallow, mutton tallow/beeswax mix, crisco, or crisco/beeswax mix for hunting, though Veg oil/beeswax works ok too.

For line shooting, it's plain old spit.

I can literally shoot all day using saliva as patch lube, though if I am competing, I do swab the bore after every shot to insure a consistent shot to shot fouling.

And that is the rest of the story. :haha:
J.D.

 

[tg]

I tried this lube for some time in the past but have settled on Beeswax/bearoil lube for hunting using pre cut square patches, lubed from a small tin at time of loading, second shots when hunting and on trail walks I use spit, I do shoot what would be considered a loose combo by most.the patch lube thing is one of those deals you just have to try this and that and figure what works for you....untill someone mentions something else to try.

 

[roundball]

IF humidity is indeed the determining factor in how well the yellow miracle lubes work, the effectivness will vary with the wildly fluctuating humidity. IMHO, that is waaaaaaayyyy too much variation in effectiveness of a patch lube to suit me.

Humidity is the only variable I could see that was pervasive year in and year out...maybe there's something else but if there is I haven't figured it out yet...I've been shooting most every weekend year round for a number of years now and based upon the time of year I know which lube I'm going to use before I leave the house...

 

[Swampman]

T/C seems to make the 1000 shot claim too.
http://www.tcarms.com/customerService/faq.php#a8

 

[J.D.]

Humidity is the only variable I could see that was pervasive year in and year out...maybe there's something else but if there is I haven't figured it out yet...

Temperature? Hard wax lubes work well enough in summer temps, but soidify into a hard wax in cooler weather. I haven't done any testing, but I suspect that temps have more effect on the yellow miracle lubes than humidity.

I've been shooting most every weekend year round for a number of years now and based upon the time of year I know which lube I'm going to use before I leave the house...

Hmmmm, so how many lubes do you use?

 

[roundball]

Temperature? Hard wax lubes work well enough in summer temps, but soidify into a hard wax in cooler weather. I haven't done any testing, but I suspect that temps have more effect on the yellow miracle lubes than humidity.

That hasn't been my experience...even on warm days due to changing weather fronts, humidity can take a nose dive and the problem appears.

Hmmmm, so how many lubes do you use?

Hmmmm......Just the two I mentioned in my post

 

[GreyWhiskers]

It's usually very dry out here in the summer. Not unusual for temps to be near 100 and humidity around 15%. Years ago I tried different "grease" type lubes including WonderLube. On a hot day I could usually only get 3 or 4 shots off before needing to clean the barrel.

Switching to a "wet" lube allows me to shoot 30 or more shots without swabbing. Currently I use a mix of water, simple green and water soluable oil. To hunt I use the same lube but leave the patches to dry some before loading. GW

 

[Swampman]

A mix of 1/3 each Lard, Olive oil, and Bee's Wax works great in the summer. In the winter I usually melt it and add a little more olive oil. Windex or windshield washer fluid will let you shoot all day. Windex is a great lock cleaner too.

All my patches are pre-cut, and pre-lubed.

 

[MikeChapin]

I only use a greasy lube when I'm hunting. It's some hoarded Lube 103 from Young Country Arms. I have tried out Wonder Lube and Natural Lube 1000 and may use one or the other when the 103 is gone.

I shoot a lot of competition in Wyoming and have noticed that those using greasy lubes have to clean after every relay or every shot to keep the gun from gunking up. The humidity is low here in the summer and temprature run in nineties to the low one hundreds. I have found that spit works as well as anything and better than a lot of stuff.

As far as advertising clains, I take them with a large chuck of rock salt. Every marketing weasel hypes their product to say it gives you paradise on earth. Unless I have used it or seen it used by someone I know and respect, I reserve judgement.

 

[roundball]

It's usually very dry out here in the summer. Not unusual for temps to be near 100 and humidity around 15%. Years ago I tried different "grease" type lubes including WonderLube. On a hot day I could usually only get 3 or 4 shots off before needing to clean the barrel.

Switching to a "wet" lube allows me to shoot 30 or more shots without swabbing. Currently I use a mix of water, simple green and water soluable oil. To hunt I use the same lube but leave the patches to dry some before loading.GW

That's been my experience...never seen where temperature itself was the culprit...and since discovering Hoppes No9 PLUS, I can shoot right through dry conditions just like I can with NL1000 during high humidity conditions.

Over the years I've accumulated thousands of plain and pillow ticking prelubed patches across several calibers by stumbling across private businesses that were closing down, and buying out all the bags of Oxyoke and TC brand prelubed patches they had on hand for a couple bucks/100.

So I use prelubed patches year round and during dry conditions no matter what time of year it is, I just open a bag, squeeze a couple squirts of Hoppes into the bag to get the patches a little wetter and head off to the range...could probably accomplish the same thing by squirting in a number of different wetting agents.

But definitely the manufacturers articles about test results with the bore butter lubes should include the clarification about moisture...I'm not convinced posting their test result articles was an intentional con job as that would just be stupid...but the test results only tell part of the story and I do think when they realized the dependency those tests had on moisture that they should have come out and ammended their test results to clarify that.

 

[GreyWhiskers]

Most shooting competitions out here specify "No Greased Patches." There's always a chance of setting the world on fire when things are dry. GW

 

[redwing]

Yes, you are right on. I notice Track always gives you the order number and price. They are a good outfit but they have to make money.
They should explain however, the different reaction that you get in lubes, when the moisture level changes. :hmm: The advise they give is only good in the low country in the summer time.
Round Ball has posted many good studies on this subject. If you don't know go back and read his notes. :thumbsup:

 

[renovato]

I only use a greasy lube when I'm hunting. It's some hoarded Lube 103 from Young Country Arms. I have tried out Wonder Lube and Natural Lube 1000 and may use one or the other when the 103 is gone.

Or just use original formula Chapstick. It's the same thing as 103.

This thread has opened my eyes to something though. I had always disliked every grease type lube I've tried. I couldn't for the life of me figure why they're so popular. Roundball's post made me realize that it's humidity related. I live in a dry climate and never got good results with grease type lubes.

 

[Bud Jenks]

Roundball
I want to use Hoppe's 9+bp at the range. How do you apply it to the pillow ticking patch??
Do you have to let it dry on the patches?? Is there a standard method of use as a patch lube?
Thanks

 

[roundball]

Roundball
I want to use Hoppe's 9+bp at the range. How do you apply it to the pillow ticking patch??
Do you have to let it dry on the patches?? Is there a standard method of use as a patch lube?
Thanks

I just pour a bag of patches into a pint size ziploc bag, squeeze a few squirts of Hoppes into the bag, seal it, squish them all around so the patches get saturated, and I use them at the range just like that...glistening wet.

When I finish a 50 shot session the bore is like 99.9% clean...I get home, submerge the breech in a bucket of steaming hot soapy water and only the slightest discoloration comes out with the first pump flush...and the next patch is clean...it is really great stuff.

 

[paulvallandigham]

Cooper, when I use a liquid lube, like Hoppes, I put it on the patches at the range, using just enough to moisten the patch, but not allow it to be dripping excess lube down the barrel. I don't want my powder fouled with the wet lube. In fact, I am now using OP Wads( Walter's Fiber Wads) in my .50 rifle, and that protects the powder charge from the moisture. You only need enough of the lube to soak the entire patch, to maximize the benefit of lubing the patch.

Now, If you are NOT cleaning your barrel between shot, you may have to use more Hoppes in order to cut down the crud that builds up between shots. That is another reason to use OP wads, or fillers to protect the powder charge from fouling.

If you have ever lubed a patch with spit, you know you can get them too " dry ", and too " wet ", depending on how much time the patch spends in your mouth, and how much saliva you allow to get onto the patch.

The same standards apply when using Hoppes.