oxpho blue and rusting

[john4645]

Twice I have blued parts wih this stuff and they have rusted, after I blued them I sprayed and wiped them with rem oil to perserve them. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

Wow! Your description is a little thin, but from what you have written, I think you have failed to neutralize your acid solution with water, or water and baking soda before you sprayed the parts with oil. Try that.

 

[john4645]

I did not know you had to neutralize the parts afterwards, thanks.

 

[peashooterJoe]

It helps to use distilled water to rinse. I have better results when using it.

 

[bighole]

I'm glad I read this post as I just blued some stuff with Oxpho Blue.

I did a search on the net and found several references to neutralizing the parts with water or baking soda.

I wonder why Brownells didn't add that little tidbit in their instructions?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Probably because they mistakenly believe that everyone paid attention in high school science classes, and understand that bluing is a oxidation process- as in " RUST "- that it uses acids to oxidize the metal surfaces, and that acids need to be neutralized unless you want RUST as an end product. There was a time when the process was called, " RUST BLUING ". That process, which is what is being used here, has become a dinosaur, in favor of " HOT BLUING". Times have changed. If you don't know that fire burns, you probably should not light matches, either.

 

If you don't know that fire burns, you probably should not light matches, either.

Wow!

Not to be confused with the phrase. "If you can't post something nice, don't post". :rotf:

As I've been told recently. :thumbsup: :grin:

 

[Zonie]

I paid attention in my science classes and I don't recall anything saying "If you use OXPHO-BLUE be sure and neutrilize the blueing." :rotf:

In fact, I am paying attention to Brownell's written comments in one of their catalogs concerning OXPHO-BLUE.

They say, in part :
"...The chemical goes through the oil on the gun, removes thin rust and blues the steel underneath. No after-rust. Unbelievably good as a rust preventive...
Oxpho-Blue has other outstanding features worthy of note:
1. Absolutely no after-rust.
2. Rust preventing phosphatized surface formed under the blue.
3. Rust removing qualities of the solution, making it unnecessary to remove mild rust in the usual manner.
4. Wetting...
5. High durability of the finish: Gives a finish as durable as the old "parkerized" military finish- or more so...."

Nothing about neutrilizing. Several comments about no after rust...

Now of course, this is Catalog hype and IMO the instructions that come with the product should specifically say "Neutrilize following application using a base such as soda ..." if that is indeed required.

As I read thru the Catalog information, I come to the conclusion that this is a Phosphatating, similar to Parkerizing, not a "rust blueing". In fact, Brownell's offers several rust blueing products which of course envolve boiling the part in distilled water.

The instant blueing materials produced by Birchwood Casey do not require any neutrilization. Just washing the part prior to oiling.

Zonie

 

[gmww]

So after all this he's back to square 1. Wonder whats causing the rust if the bluing isn't?

 

[Russianblood]

I've used Oxpho-blue on many firearms and I've never neutralized it and I've never had a rust problem with it. Of course, I always keep a thin coat of oil on all metal parts of my guns when they are being stored.

 

[bighole]

Probably because they mistakenly believe that everyone paid attention in high school science classes, and understand that bluing is a oxidation process- as in " RUST "- ... There was a time when the process was called, " RUST BLUING ". That process, which is what is being used here, has become a dinosaur, in favor of " HOT BLUING". Times have changed. If you don't know that fire burns, you probably should not light matches, either.

Boy,

What's your problem???

I don't remember talking about blueing in high school science classes but that was over 30 years ago. Maybe you just got out of high school and that's what they're teaching nowadays.

Hot blueing is the way to go. Maybe you want to have that setup at your place. The question here was about Oxpho Blue and rust. What's hot blueing have to do with Oxpho Blue that caused you to make such a negative comment?

So if all of us don't know that we're supposed to neutralize the part that Oxpho Blue was applied based on no instructions and something we may have learned back in high school, we have no business attempting to use the product?

I doubt you'd win a liability case by using the defense "you should have know that from a high school science class."

I agree with the other guy that said "If you don't have something constructive or positive to say, don't say anything.

 

[paulvallandigham]

What I was taught in high school science class was that RUST is oxidation of iron. Oxidation is iron is a slow version of what happens when wood or paper has its temperature raised above its flashpoint, and burns. And, ACIDS, as well as some alkalids, will cause oxidation of some metals, including iron.

In the lab courses for Chemistry, we were always cautioned to neutralize any acids we used, to have water standing by in case there was a spill, or some got splashed onto our clothes or skin. Lab Safety was more a concern than completing the basic experiments. I had the same instructions when I took Machine shop in H.S.

No one talked about Bluing in my high school then either. I don't think my instructors had a clue what that was. But I did. And I still do.

If you think my criticism is harsh, Okay. I can live with that. I didn't intend my comments to be harsh- only to point out the obvious. That is why I wrote in the subjunctive, beginning my speculations with the word, " Perhaps ".

I am shocked to read that the factory instructions on this stuff claims it doesn't have to be neutralizes,or at least fails to say so. I hope someone contacts the source, and lets them know of this deficiency in the instructions.

Bluing is an oxydation process, and the compound used to created the oxydation should be neutralizes with clean water. Some have to use distilled water, because their tap water is so loaded with minerals. I happen to live in a community where our tap water is actually better than distilled water. Tap water is all I have ever used to neutralize the solutions before oiling the pieces I have blued. I get a nice Blue/Black color if I heat the parts up before bluing them, and then spray them with WD40. That brand of oil has water displacement properties, which seem to remove the solution and replace it in the pores with oil that is slightly burned to give me a darker finish when that is desired. Done this way, the finish is more durable than heat bluing achieves, IMHO.

 

[john4645]

I went back and reviewed my tape on building the chambers kits with ron ehlert, and he blues a barrel with oxhpo blue and does not mention anything about neutralizing it, all he does is wipes it down with motor oil. oh well guess he did not take chemistry either.

 

[ol vern]

Why not contact the Brownells and lay your problem on them?

If anyone can give you a answer it should be the
folks that make the stuff.

 

[Chiefs50]

I too have used Oxpho Blue on a number of occasions and never had an after rust problem. Just followed Brownell's instructions and had no problems.