paper cartridge pattern for Brown bess

[one_lucky_monkey]

Hi Folks,
I noticed while searching the web for a pattern for paper cartridges that there are a few patterns.

Which one is correct for making cartridges for a .75 cal Brown Bess?

Thanks.

 

[Jim Blair]

Have you found this article illustrating the British pattern from Pickering's 1775 An Easy Plan of Discipline for a Militia.
http://ccv.northwestcompany.com/bsa.htm

 

[spudnut]

I use the same pattern but I dont tie off over the ball but simply twist the paper.When I load I use the paper round the ball(.735) as a patch.The military load used an undersized ball(69. cal) so there would be enough room for that piece of string layed over the ball will go down the tube.

 

[Pigman]

Did they load the paper with the ball or discard it?

Thanks,
Foster From Flint

 

[pargent]

Both , depending on fowling and the situation at hand.

 

[satwel]

Paper was usually loaded with the ball. The ball was undersized, .69 caliber, so in a clean or slightly fouled barrel, the paper would serve as wadding and keep the ball tight against the powder. After repeated firings, the paper could be discarded as needed to get the ball down.

 

[spudnut]

I put the torn off part over the powder ,slip the still paper patched ball in and tamp er down

 

I put the torn off part over the powder ,slip the still paper patched ball in and tamp er down

Maybe this is a stupid question.
It wouldn’t be my first.
Isn’t there a very real danger of starting a fire with a wad of paper on top of the powder?
I plan on using my musket primarily for hunting, and the thought of a burning wad of paper landing in a pile of dry autumn leaves seems like a bad idea.

 

[yakimaman]

Why would you use a military paper cartridge load to hunt? No need for a cartridge box, no need to lay down repetitive fire on an advancing foe.... work up a patched rb load and go from there.

 

[RAEDWALD]

As I understand it, the powder is poured down the barrel from the opened cartridge. Then, without reversing the cartridge, push the whole thing into the muzzle ball uppermost and ram it home. In battle you are really just pushing the opened cartridge into the barrel and letting the powder fall out while you draw your scouring stick

The powder holding portion of the cartridge will ball up on the charge to form a sort of sabot and, with a .735" ball, the greased paper ball wrapping will hold the ball in the centre while the obturation of the ball will seal the ball/paper against the walls. The result is not very different to a modern 12 bore slug round.

For military use a .69" ball will not seal but can be reloaded many times before fouling prevents loading. Your military target anyway is many yards wide and 3 yards high (allowing for low shots bouncing up into the enemy) so, if you can hit a barn door at 50 yards job done.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Got to go with Yakimaman on this one. Unless you're trying to duplicate a military situation, a patched ball is much more accurate than a paper cartridge, especially for hunting. As for the burning paper issue, try the old leather patch trick. I just wait for the local auto parts stores to run specials on chamois and load up. Leather patches work well in rifled and smooth bores. Leather is obviously thicker than paper but compresses far thinner than paper. Patches don't smolder on the ground and usually can be reused if not torn from rifling. In the case of a smoothbore, not a problem...just lick'em off and run'em down again!! :haha:

 

[spudnut]

I put the torn off part over the powder ,slip the still paper patched ball in and tamp er down

Maybe this is a stupid question.
It wouldn’t be my first.
Isn’t there a very real danger of starting a fire with a wad of paper on top of the powder?
I plan on using my musket primarily for hunting, and the thought of a burning wad of paper landing in a pile of dry autumn leaves seems like a bad idea.

Ive had em smolder a couple seconds but the cartridge paper I use(from Smiling Fox)doesnt as a rule

 

[JohnN]

I believe the original post just asked about a pattern for making cartridges and not about hunting with them. I like using them when I target shoot because that's how the gun I shoot would have been loaded.Patching a smoothbore seems to be a modern idea.I doubt they were concerned about whether or not the paper smoldered.Has there ever been a study that compared accuracy between using patches,wads, or cartridges in a smoothbore ? I'm a mediocre shooter but have not noticed much.

 

Got to go with Yakimaman on this one. Unless you're trying to duplicate a military situation, a patched ball is much more accurate than a paper cartridge, especially for hunting. As for the burning paper issue, try the old leather patch trick. I just wait for the local auto parts stores to run specials on chamois and load up. Leather patches work well in rifled and smooth bores. Leather is obviously thicker than paper but compresses far thinner than paper. Patches don't smolder on the ground and usually can be reused if not torn from rifling. In the case of a smoothbore, not a problem...just lick'em off and run'em down again!! :haha:

Since I’m sure that live rounds would be kinda frowned on at battle reenactments, why make cartridges with ball period if the accuracy is that bad? There seem to be a lot of folks making live rounds. If the accuracy is that bad, why bother?
I’m trying to argumentative, this is going to be a brand new ballgame for me. If I can shave some time off the trial and error ahead, great.
I have a trade gun, and for it I shoot PRB. I’ve never timed myself loading it, but under the best of conditions I’m guessing I can load it in a little under 45 seconds.
At the time of writing, I’ve had a musket for just over three days. I’ve been playing with muzzleloaders since 1968, and I have always loaded from pouch and horn. One of the main reasons I got the musket was the idea of using paper cartridges for a quick second shot. With practice, I think I should be able to reload in 15 seconds or so. Yeah I know, I could have just made up paper cartridges for the trade gun. Instead I have another, pretty much different from the others, long gun. No further explanation should be needed.
As it will not be a combat situation of many rounds fired in the space of a few minutes, a snug ball/paper combination will be possible and there should not be an appreciable loss of accuracy over a cloth patch.
I have had the mold for this gun since just after I ordered the gun, but since I wasn’t expecting the gun for another month I haven’t even cast balls for it yet, much less made any cartridges. That will be taken care of this evening.
Hopefully, in another week or so I can post a range report.
For what it’s worth, in the last year I have ordered two guns, an Early English Trade Gun, and an Officer’s fusil from North Star West. Both have arrived more than a month before they were expected, and communication has been great. Wish I could say that for some of the other vendors (one in particular) that I’ve dealt with.

 

[Captain outwater]

There are two types pf paper patterns- English and French. The English used string to tie theirs closed, The French preferred glue.
Reenactors using blanks can just fold theirs. I use a shotgun type crimp on my tubes- I fold the tube closed by pressing an edge in and across, 3 times, then pull the dowel back 1/8 inch and press the outside edge over, locking the folds like the end of a shotgun shell does.
The cartridge was bitten open, the pan primed, the powder poured down the barrel, the cartridge containing ball followed. The paper helped seal off the powder gases like a wad.
Cartridges were used to allow rapid reloading. The ball was significantly under size to speed loading. Accuracy was (and is if you try it) fine to 50-75 yards, when it drops off as spin makes the ball curve uncontrollably.
Paper cartridges WILL burn and ignite dry leaves, grass fires.
Cartridges are military. Civilians did use wadding or patching. It is not modern. You MUST put wadding down on the powder before dropping in small shot or the shot will displace the powder- it is heavier- and be on the bottom, with the powder on top. Makes for poor ignition at best! Military drill kept muzzles up at all times- to keep lose ball from rolling up the barrel. Civilians may want to put some wadding over the shot or ball to prevent it from moving, just like our ancestors did.

 

[JohnN]

Was patching a smoothbore done "back in the day" or is it something modern roundball shooters do because they see rifle shooters do it ? I have not done any research on it but the little I have read I have not heard of it.Do use wads though as that was definately done.Like I said before I like to use cartriges in my military musket because thats how they were loaded. If hunting I would use wads or patches.

 

[Jim Blair]

From the British Manual Exercise 1764-

11. Ram down your Cartridge!

1. Ram the Cartridge well down the Barrel, instantly recovering and seizing the Rammer back-handed at the Center, turning it and enter it as far as the lower Pipe, placing at the same Time the Edge of the Hand on the Butt End of the Rammer, with Fingers extended.

From Pickering 1775-


8. Load, turning up your hand, putting the cartridge into the muzzle, the open end downwards, giving it a sudden shake that the powder may run out of it, and pushing it into the barrel with the forefinger; then instantly turning the stock a little towards you, so as to come at the rammer easily, seize the butt of it with the thumb and fore-finger, all the fingers being clenched (the thumb and fore-finger uppermost) and the elbow down.

Von Steuben 1779-


IX. Charge with Cartridge ! 2 motions.

1st. Turn up your hand and put the cartridge into the muzzle, shaking the powder into the barrel.

XI. Ram down, Cartridge ! 1 motion.

Ram the cartridge well down the barrel, and instantly recovering and seizing the rammer back-handed by the middle, draw it quite out, turn it, and enter it as far as the lower pipe, placing at the same time the edge of the hand on the butt-end of the rammer.