paper patching ???

[silent sniper]

hey guys can you explain to me how to paper patch a bullet ? I would like to try paper patching conicals and minie's but I dont know how to ? also how effective is paper patching ?

 

[chapmans]

I have not done it but have read and wittnessed it.
The 2 ways I've seen are rolling the bullet on a strip of paper diagonally so you wrap the bullet with the paper. The other way is to cut strips of paper maybe 1/4" wide and length by trial and error and put them accross the bore like a plus sign then push the bullet into the bore while the paper patches the bullet, this is usually done with a tool that uses leverage to help get the bullet into the bore.
Hope this helps, Longball 58

 

[Hawkeye]

Try looking at these sites sor starters.
http://www.lrml.org/technical/ammunition/patching.htm
http://www.public.iastate.edu/~jessie/PPB/PPB.htm

 

[musketman]

Here is a post from last week on paper patching bullets.

Click Here

 

[Dphar]

hey guys can you explain to me how to paper patch a bullet ? I would like to try paper patching conicals and minie's but I dont know how to ? also how effective is paper patching ?

It is practically useless in a ML unless you clean every shot.
PP in MLs was used in bench guns with false muzzles etc. Hunting rifles generally used a patched round ball or a cloth patched "picket".
You can do it but I see no particular reason. Just more work.

Dan

 

[rabjr]

hey guys can you explain to me how to paper patch a bullet ? I would like to try paper patching conicals and minie's but I dont know how to ? also how effective is paper patching ?

It is practically useless in a ML unless you clean every shot.
PP in MLs was used in bench guns with false muzzles etc. Hunting rifles generally used a patched round ball or a cloth patched "picket".
You can do it but I see no particular reason. Just more work.

Dan

I agree, I only got into it because at the time I had a gun with an oversize bore .508 and paper patching allowed me to load a loose fitting bullet in an unfouled, clean barrel and have it stay put on top of the powder. It was used for hunting and any reloads in the field were done with naked unpatched bullets.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Well I got some pictures I can show to help.
I bought a patch template but soon found out I needed to modify it a bit for the length of bullets I use. I now make my own templates using heavy cardboard. .

In these pictures I used my fingers to roll them. Some guys use a board and others use cigarette rollers to do it. I wrap mine on dry, and size them DRY after they are wrapped. In my 50’s I size them back to .501 and the fit well, are easy to load even when the barrel is dirty, and they stay on the powder charge.
The base of this bullet was a hollow base so I can tuck the tail into the base. A hollow base is not needed but is best. I also like to shoot the PP bullets with an over powder wad to help protect the back of the bullet even more.
There are already myths about shooting PP bullets on this thread.
Here are the Myths.

Myth #1- It is practically useless in a ML unless you clean every shot.
This is NOT TRUE! It depends on the hardness of the lead, the thickness of the paper, and the type of paper used. I use soft lead between 5 and 8 BHN, 25% cotton onion paper. I can shoot up to 5 shots in a SUB 1” group before I need to clean.

Myth #2- PP in MLs was used in bench guns with false muzzles.
In the past maybe, but NO YOU DON’T NEED TO HAVE A FALSE MUZZLE! Paper patching is not hard and if done correctly yields fantastic results. All three of my guns will shoot sub 2” groups at 100 yards.

silent sniper, you asked, also how effective is paper patching ?
Paper patching is very effective. It is easy to do and no more work than a PRB. In fact if done correctly with the right barrel will increase the potential of the rifles accuracy level beyond what most guys even dream of. When I am hunting with PP bullets I treat them like any other conical. I put them into speed loaders, And I have several others in tubes I carry with me for extras. They are no harder to use than a regular conical or PRB.
Here is the last picture I am adding. This one spells it out. Ron

 

[rabjr]

No way I could shoot a patched bullet in a dirty barrel using real black powder but then there was no need to anyway when naked bullets shot in same place with a fouled barrel.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I should have added I use Pyrodex P in my rifles. Ron

 

[bingo1952]

The Brit's shot paper patched Pritchett bullets in their Enfields to good effect for years and I doubt they had time to clean the barrel between shots when in a fight.

 

[ResearchPress]

Long range muzzle loading match rifles are most commonly (at least here in the UK) fired with paper patched cylindrical bullets. As has already been noted, patching requires a clean barrel, which isn't a problem in the slow fire target shooting disciplines. A link has already been posted above to my Long Range Muzzle Loader web site where you can find more information.

What rifle are you seeking to shoot your paper patched bullets in?

David

 

[roundball]

"...As has already been noted, patching requires a clean barrel..."

Seems like a pretty strong "statement of fact" that is at odds with previous posts to the contrary in this thread.
:shocked2:

So did you mean that YOU need a clean bore to use PP bullets...or that YOU believe best accuracy is acheived with a clean bore, etc...or do you just ignore and reject out of hand other people's posts about their actual hands on experiences with PP bullets?
:hmm:

 

[BrownBear]

I've use PP a lot in black powder cartridge guns and certainly don't need convincing of their value or effectiveness. I haven't used them in my MLs to any degree because I usually shoot round balls with PC Walmart cloth patching. I've also been a little concerned about loading difficulties, or even problems.

I'm getting set to cone one each of my 50, 54 and 58 caliber rifles to test that process.

It occurs to me to wonder if coning will resolve the potential need for a false muzzle with PP conicals, maybe even work about as well.

Anyone tried it, or am I crossing too many PC nerve endings with my curiosity?

 

[longcruise]

So did you mean that YOU need a clean bore to use PP bullets...or that YOU believe best accuracy is acheived with a clean bore,

I think David comes from a differnt school of shooting altogether. He and his compatriots are shooting pp bullets at extreme ranges. Up to 1200 yards I think. OTOH, the others posting their experiences seem to be mainly concerned with 100 yards and thereabouts ranges. And, as ID Ron says, he is shooting Pyrodex which does not leave nearly the amount of fouling as real BP.

 

[rabjr]

I'm sure if one wanted to, they could tinker around and find the best bullet dia, patch to work. Thats fine for paper punchers but I just do not see it being practical for a hunting rifle. In my case the patch was to keep the undersized bullet on top of the powder in a clean barrel. Of which it preformed wonderfully for me. Using real black powder, I found reloading a patched bullet needed to much force and thought the patch would not survive the trip down to where it would be seated so I loaded and tried unpatched bullets in the dirty barrel and found them to shoot in the same spot as the patched/clean barrel rounds. So in my case it made sense not to go any further like conning or anything else as the patched bullet loaded firmly but rather easily in a clean barrel. And thats all I needed.

 

[roundball]

I think David comes from a differnt school of shooting altogether.

All the more reason he might want to be more clear...on its face his statement was out of sync with the other contents / context of the thread...probably why across the board statements rarely ever apply "across the board"
:grin:

 

[slowpokebr549]

Last week I made an innocent enough reply about paper patching. I used a pp on a conical(little undersized) in an effort to make a slow twist rifle stabilize a long bullet.It works well on a pritchet. I have shot black powder cartridges and it is a trick that has worked for me before in deep rifling. I have also had good luck paper patching .686 wadcutter minnies for my twelve gauge smoothbore. Geez Louise did that thread open a can of worms! I say if you havent tried it, fine, do or don't I could care less. But, I really don't understand the tone of disbelief and scorn this subject has brought up. Now if TG jumped me out about it not being a roundball, that I could understand but.... :surrender:

 

[Idaho Ron]

I am talking about shooting at 150 yards or less for hunting accuracy.
When I start shooting out to 200 to 300 yards I clean between each shot, this is for target accuracy.
I was talking about accuracy for hunting under 150 yards. For my rifles, the hardness of the lead I use, the paper I use, and the powder I use, I can shoot 4 to 5 times and still keep my groups under 2" at 100 yards. For me I can accept that for hunting accuracy. Now if I were shooting in some kind of competition or if I have some money bet on my shots, Yes I would probably clean between each shot. If I were going to even think about 1000 yards or more YES! I would clean after each shot.
Roundball, If you want to say something just say it. Ron

 

[roundball]

Last week I made an innocent enough reply about paper patching. I used a pp on a conical(little undersized) in an effort to make a slow twist rifle stabilize a long bullet.It works well on a pritchet. I have shot black powder cartridges and it is a trick that has worked for me before in deep rifling. I have also had good luck paper patching .686 wadcutter minnies for my twelve gauge smoothbore. Geez Louise did that thread open a can of worms! I say if you havent tried it, fine, do or don't I could care less. But, I really don't understand the tone of disbelief and scorn this subject has brought up.

Dunno...I suspect its the "not invented here" syndrome.
:grin:
I got some of the same reaction a couple years ago from some folks who had some very rigid ideas about shot loads in smoothbores.
I had bought a new GM .62cal/.20ga Flint smoothbore barrel Jug Choked Full for turkeys, and used the turkey load recommended by Bob Aspen on his website entitled "The Versatile Smoothbore"...1+5/8oz #6's...it patterned great, and that spring I punched both my turkey tags with it at 40 & 30 yards respectively.
Well, you'd have thought I'd declared that the sun rose in the west instead of the east!
:wink:
Got a few "you can't do that because a .20ga load is only supposed to be xyz ounces"...or "you can't do that because that sounds like a .12ga load"...or an arm chair theory about a formula that says it should be something else, etc, etc.
:shake:
I think its a little bit of human nature that when we learn one way to do something and master it, we sometimes tend to accept it as "the way" to do something instead of just ONE way.

Its why the phrase "think outside the box" was coined.
:wink:

 

[ResearchPress]

"...As has already been noted, patching requires a clean barrel..."

Seems like a pretty strong "statement of fact" that is at odds with previous posts to the contrary in this thread.

:yakyak: ....and in agreement with others that have been posted in this thread... so take you pick. :snore:

We have one 'myth busting' post above that says "I can shoot up to 5 shots in a SUB 1” group before I need to clean." This is supported by a 4 shot group fired using Pyrodex. So is it sometimes 4 sometimes 5 shots; what happens when black powder is used? That does not appear to provide the consistency that I need. What is being achieved is good accuracy and in the hunting environment should yield excellent results. How does it stand up over long strings of shots though?

I shoot long range target rifle out to 1200 yards with paper patched bullets. Course of fire is 15 match shots and 3 (or 5 depending on event) sighters. I need consistency across a long string of shots shooting 530+ grain bullets with 90-100 grains of black powder. I don't have the option to shoot short strings of shots until the group starts to open; that is throwing away points in a match.

Cleaning between shots permits the rifleman to maintain consistent barrel conditions across all shots.... It is about controlling fouling and eliminating variables. Without cleaning there is risk of pushing the bullet through the patch when seating the bullet. Similarly variations in muzzle velocity make a difference in elevation at long range which may not be apparent at short range.

or do you just ignore and reject out of hand other people's posts about their actual hands on experiences with PP bullets?

I read other peoples posts with care and understanding and avoid making reactionary statements. If I am ignorant of a subject I will seek to learn. If I have knowledge of a subject I will express my experience.

If you re-read my message above and apply some understanding you will note that I was referring to long range target shooting. Idaho Ron's experience seems to accord with my views on this subject:

I am talking about shooting at 150 yards or less for hunting accuracy.
When I start shooting out to 200 to 300 yards I clean between each shot, this is for target accuracy.

Study the reports of the 19th century long range matches and the international series at Creedmoor, Dollymount and Wimbledon. There you will learn what 19th century riflemen shooting paper patched bullets from muzzle and breech loading rifles did to wring out the best accuracy from their firearms. Come along to the World Long Range Championships at Camp Butner, North Carolina, next September and watch the riflemen shooting PP bullets and see what they do.

David