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parker double percussion

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AkDan

40 Cal.
Joined
Mar 20, 2007
Messages
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Hey gang,

I found a parker double percussion, damascus barrels, 12ga. Have never shot or even seen a damascus gun up close and noticed this one was for sale.

What should I look for? What would be a good price? I can get pics in the next couple of days. I'm a charter capt in the summer so have very little time, I'm making it a point to get back there and possibly buy it. Price was 429 I believe. The stock looked fine, no cracks or anything major. The barrels on the outside looked ok. I didnt look down them as I had no flashlight and it's raining like usual.

Thanks for the help.
 
There is a Parker Shotgun collectors association you can contact for information, but in my limited knowledge I have never heard that Parker ever made a percussion gun. If you can buy a true Parker percussion for only $429.00, buy it! I have a feeling, however, that this is a fraud. Maybe an old fraud, but a fraud.
 
Remove the barrels and look for proof marks. Especially Belgian proofs. And get the bores checked. It is possible to have the bores relined if necessary. And post photos on the forum. Probably won't help us identify the maker, but we REALLY enjoy looking at pictures of guns! :rotf:
 
It runs in my mind that this may not be the same Parker that was famous in the 30s for there fine shotguns. Someone else may be more familiar with this.
 
Shortstring, I think you are probably right. I have seen many Parkers that are NOT the Parkers of fame. Belgian makers were famous for making guns with great names, but usually with a twist. There are many Mantons for example, out there that are not the famouos English maker. Knowing this, the great guns were made by makers that were extremely proud of thier work and would have the address of the maker as well as the proper spelling of the names. Further investigation will tell you.
 
Anything with damascus barrels is not safe to shoot.When damascus barrels are xrayed like you would xray welds in pressure vessels or ship yards,hundreds of tiny holes show up.They blow sooner or later.There are barrels out there that were made to look like damascus barrels but are not.It was a finish they put on them to make them look like the moore expensive guns at the time that had damascus barrels.They are safe to shoot.Back in the 70's a guy I knew found a LC Smith 12ga. with damascus barrels in the attic of a house he moved into,It was in great shape.I told him it was not safe to fire but he thought I was trying to beat him out of it.So he shot it and it came apart.Got metal and wood in his left arm,cut a vein,near bled out before they got him to the emergency room.
 
If the barrels are good they ARE SAFE to shoot as long as you use low pressure black powder loads and not the modern high pressure smokeless loads.
 
The Parker Bros. company was in business beginning in 1866, but cartridge guns were already on the market in big numbers, and I still have a hard time believing that they made any percussion guns. I check an older copy of the Blue Book of gun values, and found no mention or percussion shotguns. Parker was bought out by Remington in the early 1930s, which marketed the guns until after WWII. Remington then dropped the Parker hame. There was a production of " replica " Parker shotguns by another company recently, but other than pictures I have never seen one of them in a gun show. They might be in a bigger show, but not the ones I have attended. All those replica guns were the break open breechloading internal hammer variety guns.

I would recommend taking the forestock off the barrels, and checking the bottom for proof marks. Use a piece of paper and make a rubbing with a pencil if there is corrosion or anything else that makes it difficult to distinguish letters and numbers. If you googel Parker Brother's shotguns, you can find sites that give you all the proof marks, dates of manufacturer, model designations codes, etc. for Parker Shotguns. If you still aren't sure what you have, list the details you do have here and someone will help you out.

As for shooting damascus barrels, if they are in good condition they are actually capable of handling more pressure than modern steel barrels. There is an article on this subject many years back now in the Double Gun Journal. I am sure a call or email to the publishers will get you a citation to the article and some direction as to how to get a copy of it.

On Damascus barrels that are not in good shape, liners can be made. A friend inherited an L.C. Smith hammer, damascus gun, that was badly corroded. He paid a skilled gunsmith to cut the barrels off in front of the chamber, bore out the chambers, and then fit new barrels as a liner to the 4 inch chamber section. The fit is so good you only see a very narrow line where the two edges meet, and it looks like a part of the decorative design of the barrel set to the uninformed. I believe the liner was held in place with an industrial grade epoxy. He refinished the stock, which was not particularly good wood, and has shot the gun for more than 15 years now, that i know. I think its too muzzle heavy, but to each his own. The barrels are choked modified and full, and there are separate triggers for each barrel and hammer. He is left with a damascus pattern on the action, and plain steel for the rest of the gun. If this were to be a restoration for sale, it might be worth having someone do a damscus-style design in the finish of the new barrels. But this is a family heirloom, that will be passed down to one of his sones, and it is not for sale. If it were a premium grade gun, he would spend the money to have a better piece of wood used to stock the shotgun. But, this gun was used to feed the family, and it was a no frills piece when his grandfather bought it and used it. Some things are best left unchanged.

Today, there are a couple of gunsmiths that can bore out the damascus barrels and put liners in them, so that you keep the damascus finish on the outside and have modern steel on the inside. Its expensive, but it can be done.
 
thanks for all the info. I had to scram out of there to run a charter this morning and wont get in their till tomorrow morning (as I type this it's still 10pm here. Have a late trip tomorrow starting at 9am, kinda nice to sleep in.

It appeared it was a hammer gun so I assumed it was a bp percussion. I didnt get much of a look as it sits high on the wall in a local "sporting" goods store. Not much sporting anything other then the old guns. There is definatly an old bp double in there, percussion however this is seperate from the parker. I'm planning on stopping in after my trip tomorrow and checking it out, I'll report more then.
 
This has been a very frequent topic on the shotguns site. I agree....hogwash. I shoot ALLOT of Damascus barreled shotguns. Unsafe Damascus barrels are no more unsafe than unsafe fluid steel barrels.
Paul, recently there have a few "Parker" ml'ing shotguns on the auction sites. But again, they are NOT the Parkers we think of when we see the name Parker. They are usually back action guns and they are made in Belgium.
 
AkDan said:
It appeared it was a hammer gun so I assumed it was a bp percussion.
AkDan,
Some 30or35 years ago I inherited a 28guage
SxS.Had hammers also and at a quick glance
appeared to be a front stuffer.But,it broke,
and shot modern 28guage shells.I have no idea
who the maker was,but do know it harvested a
boatload of squirrels.Wish I still had it.Let
go,during some hard times,along with a Charles
Daly O/U 20guage.Probably the only gun I ever owned that I doubled my money on.
snake-eyes:hmm:
 
If the gun is genuine is most likely an English one by William Parker...a good maker of medium grade guns - which are a great deal better than any reproduction and better than 90% of the Belgian doubles.
I've shot damascus muzzleloaders for years...if the barrels are in good shape - which dosen't mean they have to have mirror-like bores - and you stick to black powder it should last virtually forever. The price sounds fair also.
JV Puleo
 
Acording to the shotgun reloading manuels I have,smokless powder loads for shotguns are loaded to blackpowder pressures.Why do they call them "dram equivilent"?They weren't safe 50 years ago and they ain't safe now.I used to work part time for a gunsmith back in the sixtie's when I was in high school until I joined the marine corps and again after I got out in the seventies until he retired.I've seen lots of blown up damascus barreled guns.I've taken several to be x-rayed by people that x-rayed welds in refineries so we could show the owner why we would not fix the firing pin or the hammer spring so they could shoot grandpas old shotgun.That is the only way to tell if it is safe and I never took one to be x-rayed that was. It would be criminaly irresponsible to tell anyone a damsacus barreled shotgun would be safe to shoot.And in this day and age with all the landshark lawyers,down right dumb.Anyone that wants to bet their hand or part of their arm or an eye or possibly their life can go ahead and shot one of them,but don't let anyone stand close by so that the person firing it will be the only one hurt in case it does let go.
 
Since the testing you did, testing equipment has gotten much better. Many of the barrels were burst because some fool used a Smokeless Powder high pressure load in the gun barrel. Smokeless powder reaches substantially higher pressures, faster, than does black powder. That does not mean that you can't find BP loads that are in the same pressure range as some of the low powered( pressured) load using some smokeless powders. What I am saying is that many of the modern field loads have much more pressure than what you would get with BP. The recent testing, reported in the Double Gun Journal, showed that Damascus barrels, in good condition can actually withstand more barrel pressure than can many modern gun barrels.

The PROVISO for Damascus guns is to ALWAYS USE BLACK POWDER loads in the gun, and treat it as you hope to be treated if you live to be as old as the gun is. Use light loads. There are lots of effective field loads that are in the 6,000 fpe cups range and some under that, that can be used in these old guns.

If you use Brass hulls, you add an extra level of protection as the brass itself is able to contain most of the pressure by itself.

When the load leaves the cartridge casing, the pressure in the barrel drops as the load moves towards the muzzle. That is why old guns got away with those paper thin muzzles and " Full Chokes".

I was taught to never fire a Damascus barreled gun, and taught that rule to my Hunter Safety classes for most of the first 20 years I taught. However, a few years ago, my late friend, Oscar Gaddy, set me straight, as he had been involved in the testing of damascus barrel strengths, and was a surprised as I was( and you seem to be) at the test results. Oscar figured out how to refinish the old shotgun barrels in the various colors that were offered back in the 1870-1820 period. The process had been lost, so he figured it out, ended up being recommended for doing restoration refinishing work by some of the old English Gunmaking firms, as well as Remington, and wrote a two part article about the subject published in The Double Gun Journal, in 1997.
 
Dram equvilent to produce the same VELOCITY, not pressures. I've heard of modern ML rifles blowing up because some idjit loaded them with smokeless. Does this mean that all ML rilfes are inherently dangerous and will eventually blow up???. I know of instances were people put gasoline in a diesel engine and turned it to scrap.. Does this mean diesel engines are unreliable??. A freind blew up a sako 25-06 from inadvertantly useing a squib load (at least that's what we THINK caused it). Point is that not properly fed, many things fail. Damascus barreled breech loaders fell victim to this largely due the ignorance early on. I do understand were you are coming from, if you don't know, err on the side of caution. I hear this line of thinking every time I hear a liberal explain their stand on gun control. You know the one, "I don't really know anything about it but I do know that accidents HAVE happened (the cause of which is irrelevent)therfore, err on the side of caution and ban their use entirely". I completely respect your right to err on the side of caution. I also appreciate your desire to make people aware of a percieved danger. However, you may want to do some research and learn the actual facts before makeing a blanket statement like "they will all blow up eventually". Total rubbish!
 
I read the same article in DGJ several years ago and the interesting thing about the test gun (I think it was a Parker) was that it was in terrible shape with badly pitted barrels. Even so this gun survived substantially past the proof load stage right up to the level where many modern guns would have failed.

I own over a dozen cartridge damascus guns and I have shot most of them, but only with black powder loads. I have never doubted the strength of any of them since I buy them in very good condition and also only buy high quality ones that were manufactured by the better makers of the day. I honestly, in better than 15 years of collecting and shooting these guns, have never heard of an actual failure with a damascus gun that didn't involve smokeless loads or some other form of neglect such as a plugged barrel. The "hype" was pretty much started by manufacturers scared of lawsuites because of the actions of a few idiots who loaded these guns with heavy smokeless loads which surpassed their design strengths.

Actually many of the later damascus guns were proofed for nitro and in the day the nitro proofed damascus barrels were actually considered stronger than some of the fluid steel being made, they were considerably more expensive however.
 
Well, I have to say thanks to all who replied.

I have to say I was a little excited after viewing it high aloft hanging on the wall in the shop.

Today I put to hand the double breach loader and as nice as it was couldnt come to grips to purchase it. One barrel was in great shape. I'm no expert but the 2nd barrel looked horrible, possibly dirty, possibly just rusted badly, not sure.

So I'm still looking for a double, possibly a double flint if I can find it, that shoots straight, works when fired, and it'd help to have a decent pattern out to 25 or 30 yards...... The saga continues................
 
There was a W. Parker ?William? operating out of England in the late flint and percussion period until his death in 1841 (from memory). His son(s) took over and later the became Parker & Field. I had a very nice percussion shotgun made by him, damascus barrels and back action locks with engraving.

If I remember correctly, he was gunmaker to so and so, either the King, Prince of Wales, Duke so and so, etc. Also he had some type of arrangement to make guns for the London police
 
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