I'm starting to narrow my choices here to either the musketoon or 2-band rifle. Depending on where I buy from the P-H guns are anywhere from $275 more than the 1861 EuroArms Musketoon to $375 more than the Armisport 1858 2-band rifle. Am I getting something more for the price than a name brand? If the extra money buys more accuracy and dependability that's fine. If not, then what?
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Parker-Hale Enfield vs. the others
- Thread starter Zip
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poordevil
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According to the Dixie Gun Works catalog, the Euroarms musketoon has the progressive rifling as does the P-H.
Any English made P-H you fine will be 30 + years old. My understanding is they have 4 number serial numbers , where as the Italian (Euroarms) made P-H have more numbers, but have P-H English made barrels.
If you are not interested in the Snob appeal of the English made version, then get the Euroarms. It has the proper rifling. Will it shoot better than the Armisport? I do not know. I have the Armisport 1842 musket rifled version and have no complaints as to the quality or craftmanship.
Any English made P-H you fine will be 30 + years old. My understanding is they have 4 number serial numbers , where as the Italian (Euroarms) made P-H have more numbers, but have P-H English made barrels.
If you are not interested in the Snob appeal of the English made version, then get the Euroarms. It has the proper rifling. Will it shoot better than the Armisport? I do not know. I have the Armisport 1842 musket rifled version and have no complaints as to the quality or craftmanship.
i agree with poordevil,
my son and i shoot p-h enfields in fact we were shooting them yesterday. i also have an 1861 springfield replica made by armisport, that one can't hold a candle to the p-h guns. if you can buy the parkerhale rifles.
as an aside, my frind has a euroarms enfield, it shoots good groups but about 4" to the right, a little bending of the rear sight will cure that.
my son and i shoot p-h enfields in fact we were shooting them yesterday. i also have an 1861 springfield replica made by armisport, that one can't hold a candle to the p-h guns. if you can buy the parkerhale rifles.
as an aside, my frind has a euroarms enfield, it shoots good groups but about 4" to the right, a little bending of the rear sight will cure that.
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poordevil said:
I'd like to point out that the 'English version' is not actually a version, but a continuation of the original manufacturing, using the original set of jigs and gauges. Herbie Woodend [RIP] and I took them out of their fitted cabinets and counted them all very carefully the very day they were returned from P-H after they had hung on to them for twenty years longer than promised.
I'm not saying that those that came after are not as good...hell, yes, I am. They are not as good.
tac
Alright Tac, I like a man who believes in and stands by his work. Tell me where to buy a P-H (besides Dixie Gun Works) for a good price and I'll be glad to look. Not committing, money being what it is, but maybe I've got a rich uncle somewhere. :yakyak:
Sometimes a used Parker-Hale Enfield will show up at some of the Civil War re-enactment sites.
Usually (but not always) the owners of these guns have recognized the quality of the guns and have taken care of them like they should be.
In other words, they actually cleaned and oiled them after shooting them. (This cannot be said for many of the less valuable guns used by the re-enactors.)
It took me over 4 years of looking at gun shows before I got my three different P-H Enfield guns.
A note of a few things to look for on these:
The stocks are real walnut and are unstained and finished with a varnish coating.
Stamped on the right side of the butt there will be a pair of concentric circles and between them is stamped "PARKER HALE LTD"
There will be a crown over BP proof mark on the breech end of the barrel.
Stamped in capital letters on the barrel is
PARKER-HALE LTD. BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND
Stamped on the left side of the breech will be a 4 digit serial number.
On the bottom of the breech of the barrel will be markings indicating the powder load.
My Musketoon for instance says:
3 1/2 DRAMS BLACK POWDER
577 536 GRs BULLET
There are also two proof marks stamped next to the above noted markings.
The markings on the lockplate gives the model year over "ENFIELD" ahead of the hammer and a large crown over "P-H" in an upright position behind the hammer.
I mention all of this because as you know these P-H guns bring a much higher cost and it isn't inconceivable that someone may try to pawn off a cheaper Italian version as being a real Parker-Hale.
Usually (but not always) the owners of these guns have recognized the quality of the guns and have taken care of them like they should be.
In other words, they actually cleaned and oiled them after shooting them. (This cannot be said for many of the less valuable guns used by the re-enactors.)
It took me over 4 years of looking at gun shows before I got my three different P-H Enfield guns.
A note of a few things to look for on these:
The stocks are real walnut and are unstained and finished with a varnish coating.
Stamped on the right side of the butt there will be a pair of concentric circles and between them is stamped "PARKER HALE LTD"
There will be a crown over BP proof mark on the breech end of the barrel.
Stamped in capital letters on the barrel is
PARKER-HALE LTD. BIRMINGHAM, ENGLAND
Stamped on the left side of the breech will be a 4 digit serial number.
On the bottom of the breech of the barrel will be markings indicating the powder load.
My Musketoon for instance says:
3 1/2 DRAMS BLACK POWDER
577 536 GRs BULLET
There are also two proof marks stamped next to the above noted markings.
The markings on the lockplate gives the model year over "ENFIELD" ahead of the hammer and a large crown over "P-H" in an upright position behind the hammer.
I mention all of this because as you know these P-H guns bring a much higher cost and it isn't inconceivable that someone may try to pawn off a cheaper Italian version as being a real Parker-Hale.
poordevil
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When I got mine , if I remember the only other muskets were the Zouove and 1841 Mississippi with the Dixie Gun Works 1863 Springfield. The Z and Miss were $99.00 at the time The Parker-Hale was $325.00 quite a difference and I worked in my dads cabinet shop for $1.00 per hour to get it. I would not sell mine for $1000.00
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Zip said:
Please read all above.
tac
poordevil
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The Gibbs guns have Parker-Hale made in Birmingham England BBLS (the last I heard) which are sent to Italy (Eruoarms?) put together and called "Parker-Hale" Nice guns but NOT the 1970's all English made P-H
This is just me, but the only Parker-Hale, Enfield Muskets I consider true P-H are the English made guns.
This is just me, but the only Parker-Hale, Enfield Muskets I consider true P-H are the English made guns.
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poordevil said:
It is not just you - the Italians can call them whatever they please, although in EU law they should not, but P-H as a gun-making company is long gone and cannot defend itself in court against a spurilous claim like that.
If it was not 100% made in Birmingham, at Golden Hillock Road factory, then they are NOT a Parker-Hale gun, but a license-made Parker-Hale gun, and should, in law, be marked up as such - 'barrel by P-H' or some such mark. I arranged for the purchase of quite a few .451 barrels about twenty years ago, for a fellow-member of the Vintage Arms Association of UK to make into rifles - none of THEM are called Parker-Hale rifles.
Many more of the final stock of barrels, perhaps all of them, went to Euroarms in Italy to be made into the guns you see today, but they are no more a real Parker-Hale than a replica Ford Shelby Cobra with an original engine is a real Cobra.
tac
Well, I guess I got my wires crossed looking at the DGW website. :redface: Wasn't quite sure of the Gibbs Rifle Co. connection in all this and saw the "Parker-Hale/Italy" manufacturer listing in the description. Thanks for the clarification.
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Zip said:
It's called trading on past or stolen glory.
A friend of mine has a replica MG TF, but it has a real MG TF steering wheel.
That's the sole connection with the rea ldeal.
But HE calls it his MG TF.
tac
Paulussie0
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Hi there ,
I am led to beleve there is more to it than this,
Some time ago I bought a Parker Hale , nice wood all the stamps every thing in order....bud the barrel did not fit the wood as it should .
So I wend to a good friend of mine and a good gun maker to and showed him the "Parker Hale".
He told me that the barrel was a good and original P-H bud the wood was not , neither the the lock.
Inspite of the(original)stamps and all it is a Italian production , the lockplate to thin also the mainspring to light , the breachplug was touching the lockplate , there was tention on the tang.
All and all I had to do a lot of work to get near the P-H quality , and it will always be a Italian (re)production
I am led to beleve there is more to it than this,
Some time ago I bought a Parker Hale , nice wood all the stamps every thing in order....bud the barrel did not fit the wood as it should .
So I wend to a good friend of mine and a good gun maker to and showed him the "Parker Hale".
He told me that the barrel was a good and original P-H bud the wood was not , neither the the lock.
Inspite of the(original)stamps and all it is a Italian production , the lockplate to thin also the mainspring to light , the breachplug was touching the lockplate , there was tention on the tang.
All and all I had to do a lot of work to get near the P-H quality , and it will always be a Italian (re)production
