patch lube

[tjohnson56]

I've had two TC rifles for about 17 years but I'm really a newbie, just have not shot them much.

I got some pillow ticking, washed it, then miked it at about .017 to .019 depending on where we put the mike. My guess is a .018 average. I cut the ticking 1 1/2" inches wide, put it on a piece of plywood and used a putty knife to rub in natural lube 1000. Then rolled the two strips, one on top of the other, lubed side to dry side. ( only the side I lubed turned yellow ) Then I put it in the Microwave for 11 seconds, turned the roll over and nuced it for 11 seconds more. They are now in a zip-lock.

How do I know if I used enough lube? Should both sides be yellow? I want to try patching at the muzzle, should I put the yellow side down, as in putting the ball on the white side or should I lube both sides? The lube seemed to spread out nice and the whole strip turned yellow on one side and I kind of worked it in. Is this enough?

I got the works for Stumpy's moose juice and will mix up a batch but how do I know if I have enough lube on my patches? :surrender:

 

[BrownBear]

I'm betting they'll be just fine with the yellow side down. When I'm lubing at the muzzle, there sure isn't any more than that on a patch.

 

[mykeal]

Put the yellow side down on the muzzle, start your ball, cut the patch. That'll put the lube against the rifle bore, where it needs to be, rather than next to the ball itself, where it doesn't need to be. As far as whether there's enough, your groups will be the only way to tell that.

If you're not getting good groups, there are three variables that you can change one at a time: amount of patch lube, patch thickness, ball size.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

hard to say. plenty of lube will usually load easier but likely will not give the tightest groups. some of it depends on if you dry patch between shots. I do and get usually 12-18 shots before I have to clean the bore some with a brush.
this is with a .50 capper. useing a felt overpowder.

 

[Bill Bryan]

I shoot a .50 Cal flintlock using a 7/1 mixture of Balistol/ Water as patch lube. It's amazing how little lube you need. A littl goes a long way.
Also I use a lubed patch over the jag on my range rod to set the bullet. It cleans the barrel with each shoot.

 

the lubed side of the patch goes to the bore. dont need much :v

 

[tjohnson56]

So is there a way to know if I'm using to little ( burnt patch? ) or to much (?).

 

[paulvallandigham]

You need to learn how to read patches. Buy Dutch Schoultz Black Powder Rifle Accuracy system, and it will help you answer this questions and dozens more. Its the best way to spend $15.00 around.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

Yes, if you don't use enough lube, the patches can burn. But they burn for other reasons, including being too thin for the caliber and load( Powder charge, and ball diameter) you are using. Its far better to err on the side of putting too much lube on patches than to not put enough, for most applications.

 

[tjohnson56]

Thanks guys I'll give it a try at the range.

 

[tjohnson56]

So what your saying is I cant over lube, it's more pacth thickness, ball size to my bore?

So if I don't have a tight fit the patch will burn at the middle of the ball ( the pressure point ) where the gases pass it?

 

[paulvallandigham]

The gases are always trying to get by the PRB, and will burn the patches at the ring of contact, between the patch and the bore. If the patch is too thin, you get burning at the ring of contact, tearing of the patches from that ring forward, and sometimes a hole burned in the middle of the back of the patch. The hole in the middle is the clearest indicator that your patch is too thin, or lube is absent. The burned sides, and tearing are indicators of gas cutting, and blow-by, indicating that the patch is NOT filling the grooves adequately, and the lube is insufficient to help seal the contact point.

 

[tjohnson56]

Thanks for the reply Paul, Is this the reason for filler or a over felt wad to eliminate gases passing the ball? I picked up a can of corn meal a while back because of what I've read here and want to try it under Buffalo Ball-etts, they where by far the best groups that I shot in the past.

Are RB's over filler ( corn meal ) a common load? Every time I see a reference to filler or over wads it's in a conical thread. Why is that? Does it have no effect on RB's?

Thanks for your time and have you ever had any luck with Ball-etts?

 

[paulvallandigham]

I have never used the balletts personally, because my rifle was designed for RB only. However, I have witnessed other shooters shoot them, in their guns, and they seem to be very accurate.

Using Corn meal is both cheap, and easy. I put mine in a metal flask I was given years ago to carry powder for a replica revolver I have since sold. I bought a 20 and 50 grain spout to put in the flask, so I could easily measure out a desired volume. The 20 grain spout seems to work in my .50 cal. rifle. The .50 grain spout will be used for my 20 gauge fowler.

I am not a fan of the felt wads, simply because they are expensive- and I don't believe they hold the gas pressure back as well as the fiber wads, or OS cards made of cardboard do. I have seen a 200+ fps difference between using the two different wads. I have not chronographed oversize felt wads, as one member here apparently uses, but he is reporting slower velocities out of his guns than I get from mine in the same caliber, when I use the stiffer wads. I don't want a wad that will curl around the backside of a PRB when the gun is fired. INstead, I want a stiff enough wad that will maintain its shape, and maintain full contact with both the lands and grooves of my barrel as the load is moving out of the barrel. I have been using some .50 caliber fiber OP wads in my rifle only because I was given some to try. My cornmeal is sitting back waiting for me to wring out these fiber wads( Walter's Fiber wads)and make a decision as to whether I will buy more, or simply return to using corn meal.

Although putting corn meal down the barrel after pouring in the powder does not take a lot of time, it IS an extra step, and I suspect that is why more shooters don't use the fillers in the RB loads. If the members here are at all representative, most shooters don't bother to use a chronograph to test their loads, cleaning and loading procedures to maximize accuracy, and don't care. Close is good enough for them.

I, on the other than, like to find out what works the best, by testing under the most rigorously controlled conditions I can establish, and once I find a set of components that give the best accuracy for that gun, I go back to volume measuring, loading my ball to the mark on my ramrod, and eliminate as much of all the careful stuff I did during the tests as I think I can get away with and still shoot a repectable group at 50 yards. I do enjoy loading from my bag, and carrying everything I am going to need in the field to make the gun go boom.

 

[tjohnson56]

From some of your post, if I could get the quote thing to work for me I would put it in here. It sounds like you have used filler in the past ( corn meal ) and may go back to it under PR's?

Is this a common thing to do with RB's? And if you use filler why do you need a patch, does the flat bottom of the conicals make that much of a difference as opposed to a round bottom of the round ball?

 

[paulvallandigham]

The filler or OP wad seals the gases, and the patch imparts the spin from the rifling to the RB. Two different jobs that are often done with just the patch, but which, in doing so, create other problems. With light loads, which were the norm, because of the difficulty in obtaining powder back when, the problems are minimized. But the shots were also taken at short ranges, too.

The black powder cartridge guys have re-discovered the benefit of using fillers and OP wads in loading their bullets in casings. Because the grooves in the barrels of these rifles are much more shallow than those in a RB rifle, they have different problems to solve when it comes to spinning the bullet. But, the gas seal is provided by an OP wad, or fillers.