Patch thickness question

[Spot Shooter]

Well, I've got a .54 Cal, and .530 Round ball molds - logic? would say I get .005 think patches?

I've seen .010, and .015 think patches - do I use one of them?

Spot

 

[tg]

it will depend on the make of barrel, some like a .530 or .535 ball with a .015 patch some shoot a .540 ball with the same patch. My .54 LGP liked .535 balls with a .015 patch and 70 gr 3f.

 

[roundball]

The .530 ball & .015" cotton patch seem to be the industry standard or nominal sizes that should give pretty satisfactory results in the typical .54cal...and just like TG said, adjustments in one or both can be made if accuracy with the first set isn't as good as it could be.

In my TC .54 I started with Hornady .530's & .015" prelubed cotton patches and got real good accuracy...but then experimented with .018" pillow ticking patches and got extremely good accuracy...been using TC .018" prelubed pillow ticking patches ever since

 

[Zonie]

quote:Originally posted by Spot Shooter:
Well, I've got a .54 Cal, and .530 Round ball molds - logic? would say I get .005 think patches?

I've seen .010, and .015 think patches - do I use one of them?

Spot .530+.005+.005 = .540 so .005 thick patches sounds logical, but it isn't the way it works.

The sum of the ball diameter and twice the patch thickness always has to be bigger than the bore.
Part of this is because the bore diameter is .540 but the grooves are about .008 deep and the patch must fill the grooves tightly.

So what we have here is .540 bore +.008 groove + .008 groove = .556 diameter minus .530 ball = .026.
.026/2=.013 thick patch.

This is all theory. In reality the extra crush of a slightly thicker patch is what keeps the patch from burning thru when the gun is fired.

The REAL bottom line is each gun likes it's own special combination of ball, patch material, patch thickness, Lube and powder load.
Thats one of the things that makes this sport fun. The satisfaction of working out the "best" load.

 

[Birddog6]

Spot Shooter: Your GPR will use a .535 ball & .015 to .017 patching for the best accuracy. Now some fellers shoot a .530 but I like mine tight, not a hammer in tight, but a good smart rap with a short staarrter. Try some 2F Goex & about 65 gr for target & 75 gr for Deer hunting. Also can shoot 75 gr of FFF for the deer load but I wouldn't do it all the time like for targets as it will possibly gas cut the barrel. I use Lehigh Lube in my GPR for patch lube or some homemade grease.

Have fun.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives

 

[Deadeye]

I've found that if I use a combination that is tight but I can get down with a short starter (no hammer)I'll get good accuracy. I have 4 .54s- 2 with GM barrels and 1 Colrain and 1 Getz and I use .530 and .015
pillow ticking and 60 grs. 3f in all of them with excellent accuracy. I used to use Oxyoke .015 patches but then Oxyoke said they quit making .015 and only have .018 but when I miked some of the .018 it miked .015 so I still am wondering if they changed the material or the mike. Good idea to have a mike.
Deadeye

 

[Birddog6]

Deadeye: Every time I have ever bought some .015 patching from Oxjoke it measures about .011 and the .018 they have measures .015. I don't think they can read a mic ! ha ha ! The .010 they sent me measures .008

They must measure it real loose or fluffed or something. I just take a dial caliper & run it down snug, or a 1" mic & run it down snug & read it.

 

[Spot Shooter]

I heard of guy's getting patch material at walmart, and fabric shops.

So what exactly am I looking for and now do I know how thick it is?

Thanks,
Spot

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Spot Shooter:
I heard of guy's getting patch material at walmart, and fabric shops.
So what exactly am I looking for and now do I know how thick it is?Bulk Pillow Ticking:

Tightly woven, heavy cloth, usually with blue striles running down it...

It comes in a bolt (flat roll) and can be cut to as many yards as you wish ti pay for, a whole bolt is roughly 40 yards long...

To get it's thickness, take a set of calipers or micrometers in the store with you, measure the thickness in several spots along it's length (before the clerk cuts it), you can get enough picking at one time to lase a few years...

Tips:
1. Don't tell the workers at the fabric shop what it is to be used for... (trust me on this one)

2. Wash the ticking before you cut it into circles or stripe, pillow ticking has sizing in it that must be washed out first...

 

Spot

Without a set of "calipers" it"ll be hard to tell jest "what" thickness you"ll be git"n!

I"d start with the thickest "pillow ticking" thet WalMart has on hand!
Make sure to ask for "hunnert percent cotton" pillow ticking!

When you git it home be sure to wash all the "sizeing" (starch) out of the "NEW" material!! (I usually wash mine twice!)

 

SORRY!!!!

I didn"t mean to sound like an "echo"!! (I got a slow "type"n finger"!!)

 

[Birddog6]

Unless your Wal-Mart has some old stock you may be wasting your time there now. I have been too 6 dif ones & gave up as they chaanged the materials. All of it I find now is about .009 to .011 thick & cannot find any of the .017 or .018 they were carrying. Up north I found some that was .015 but that was the thickest I could find. All of the thin stuff has the same SKU# as the thick stuff too.

Anyway, you can get it at Jo Anne Fabrics usually if not at Wal-Mart.

As for washing it, I have tried it both ways & prefer my ticking unwashed. For me it is easier to cut into patches as it lays flat & etc. Testing I did shooting it, I could find no dif in accuracy, ease of use, & etc. one from the other.

Custom Muzzleloaders & Custom Knives

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Birddog6:
All of it I find now is about .009 to .011 thick & cannot find any of the .017 or .018 they were carrying.If you act quickly, there is a large piece of vintage heavy cotton blue and white pillow ticking fabric for bid. "48" wide by 96" long (2 and 3/4 yards)" on ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3268399231

 

[BrownBear]

I found Oxyokes labeled both .010 and .015 when I bought my GPR, as well as .530 and .535 Hornady swaged balls. Being democratic and not sure what I would settle on before eventually getting a mould, I bought some of each. Haven't miked the patches, but will do that now that you all are talking about it.

Here's what has evolved with my GPR:

For light loads less than 60 grains of FFFg, either the thinner patch and bigger ball or visa versa (.010 + .535 or the .015 + .530) are real accurate with easy starting and seating. No burn-through with either and light charges, but it's close. With higher charges it's definitely there. Pair the larger ball with the thicker patch, and you have to whack it real good to get it started.

Because small game or target shooting involves a lot more shots, I've gone with using either (apparent) .545 combo for ease of loading. But I've been looking for something that will bring the total up slightly so I can use the same ball and patch for both light and heavy loads, hopefully without needing quite as much enthusiasm as the .015 + .535 combo to start the ball.

Sounds like I need to look into the new .018 patches or pillow ticking with the .530 ball, but I'm going to hold off buying that mould till I'm sure. I've just about shot up the 200 balls I bought in the two weeks I've had the rifle, but buying another box or two still might be better than buying the mould just yet.

If it comes to making patches, for field use I'm really inclined to using a die cutter and pre-lubing, rather than doing it one at a time. Anyone have experience and advice? Interested in die sources or ways of making one, technique for using it and lube options.

Thanks!

 

[Spot Shooter]

Good question,

Once you have the material, and have prep'd it.
How do you cut it into a perfectly round patch, or does that matter?

Do loose thread's cause trouble?

Guy's I've learned more in two weeks on this board then 6 months on the other one I was at.

Thanks,
Spot

 

[musketman]

quote:Originally posted by Spot Shooter:
How do you cut it into a perfectly round patch, or does that matter? Do loose thread's cause trouble?Some cut circles, some cut squares, I like hexagons myself...

As long as there is enough patch to seal the bore effectivly, it can be any shape...

Loose threads have never caused too much concern in bulk ticking, I just cut them off...

Loose threads when loading may cause a pressure leak when fired, gas from the burning powder could seep around the weak spot in the patch resulting in a loss of velocity...

Cut the patch a bit bigger than you need and the loose threads on the edges won't pose a problem...

When cutting patches from bulk ticking, I use the blue stripes for a guide, to keep my hex's in a row...

I cut strips that are 1 3/4 inch wide (I shoot a .75 caliber), then I cut them into squares and then nip the corners off making my hex's...

When I used round patches, I would draw circles on the ticking in rows running the length of the blue stripes, and cut out the rows into strips...

Then give my teenage daughters a few rows each and a pair of sharp scissors and make them cut the circles out for $$$...

Any loose threads left in the barrel will be blown out along with the patch and ball...

P.S. Thanks for the knowledge plug for this forum, we have a lot of smart people here who are willing to share what they know...

 

[Zonie]

I wouldn't worry about the loose threads as they will all be sticking out of the muzzle when you have "started" the ball/patch.
After firing, the entire outside of the patch will be nothing but loose threads (and that's what it should do).

I cut the material into circles using a "Hole Saw" I bought at Home Depot. It is a hollow "full diameter" style for a 1 1/2 diameter hole to make patches for my .50 and .54 caliber rifles. I ground all of the teeth off of it and tapered the sides at about a 5 degree angle at the mouth. I then sharpened the edge.
To use it I fold the material to give about 5 thicknesses and place it on a soft pine board.
Chucking the toothless saw in my drill I then proceed to drill holes thru the material until the inside of the saw is full of new patches. These are removed with a screw driver thru the slots in the outside of the saws body (it came that way for this purpose).

Now that I've described it I will say that after reading others success with plain old square patches I would not make another hole saw. Too much work, too little gain.

After Mooskeetmans posting "Some cut circles, some cut squares, I like hexagons myself... ] ye can see why Ah says "Jus don't let that ole Mooskeetman "cast a hex" on you".

 

[Zonie]

Thinken 'bout Mooskeetmans Hex Patches reminded me bout the days o matchlocks an earlier.

Did ye know that bullets warnt always round?
Back when the Christians wer a fighten the MiddleEastren Infidels some o the Christians used triangular bullets! They believed an Infidel shot with a triangular bullet was doomed to go straight to Hell!!!

Also did ye know when rifleing wer first prooven ta make a bullet fly straighter some thought the spinning of the bullet was causing the demons to be thrown off of it and they couldn't get a good grip on it to missguide the bullet in its flight?
So when ole Mooskeetmans Bess misses the target he can just blame em demons!

 

[Spot Shooter]

Patches are strange for me, This is going to be new. When you grease the patches, do you put it on all sides?

Spot

 

[Stumpkiller]

I only put it on the side that faces the barrel. It certainly wouldn't hurt to do both sides. My method is to open my tin of grease, drag the patch strip over the grease with my thumb, lay the patch over my loading block (I rarely cut the patch at the barrel) and then push the ball down into the patch. Then cut it flush with my knife.

I just bought a bunch (4 yards) od black stripe ticking at JoAnne Fabrics for $3.98/yd (32" X 36"). It mic'ed at 0.017" to 0.018" which is perfect.