Patched Conicals?

[Nuthatch]

Nothing wrong with chasing the home cast option, just wasn’t something I considered when looking for that non-lead 45 conical. I actually have a couple boxes/crates filled with molds like the one below. I have to go to my inventory list to remember what have.
View attachment 385828

I may have to pick up one of those .456 220gr. moulds. In lead, I can probably knurl that to .458 or so. And in the bismuth alloy, it would expand to .459-.461somewhere. Being a standard size, it would be a lot cheaper to experiment with that than order a custom.

 

[SDSmlf]

I may have to pick up one of those .456 220gr. moulds. In lead, I can probably knurl that to .458 or so. And in the bismuth alloy, it would expand to .459-.461somewhere. Being a standard size, it would be a lot cheaper to experiment with that than order a custom.

The .456” 220 grain molds have solved a number of problems for me, but I only run straight lead or 40:1 alloy, and use sizing dies to fine tune the diameter that works.

Though I’ve not tried casting with bismuth (I have more than enough irons in the fire), I have to wonder how long a Lee aluminum mold would hold up casting it? But it sounds like it may be worth trying if you can knurl the bismuth diameter up. I use a knurling attachment from lathe and find I can increase the OD on copper .005” to .008”, depending on the alloy and my determination.

 

[Nuthatch]

The .456” 220 grain molds have solved a number of problems for me, but I only run straight lead or 40:1 alloy, and use sizing dies to fine tune the diameter that works.

Though I’ve not tried casting with bismuth (I have more than enough irons in the fire), I have to wonder how long a Lee aluminum mold would hold up casting it? But it sounds like it may be worth trying if you can knurl the bismuth diameter up. I use a knurling attachment from lathe and find I can increase the OD on copper .005” to .008”, depending on the alloy and my determination.

It's very unlikely that I could knurl bismuth alloy. It's really hard. But it expands as it cools, the exact opposite of lead alloys. So whatever the mould diameter, the casted bullet diameter will be 0.002-0.005" larger. If I were to use the same mould to cast both, the lead would have to be knurled to match the bismuth diameter. This is part of why I'm taking so long to test and rethink things before pulling the trigger on a custom mould. It may be that I have to do 2 -- one for bismuth and a "matching" one for lead. A .456 mould would cast at .456 for lead and only have 0.001" of rifling holding the bullet. But cast in bismuth alloy, it would expand up to .461 and have 0.0035" of rifling engraving -- much better. But it may still be a challenge to load it in the bore.

As far as the mould holding up, I doubt it would be an issue. This isn't for plinking ammo -- just hunting. So once I get it dialed and then cast up 10-20, I'm pretty well set for several years. The mould will take some abuse from having to whack at the bullets just to get them free of the mould. That expansion locks them in pretty good. Thankfully, lead is much easier to work with for range time.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Something about your settings isn't allowing a PM.

Dang, no wonder I have never gotten a PM here. I believe I fixed it.
So now Im open for hate mail!

The boolits are .440, and with two turns they come out .460. Designed for the Sharps which got sold along with the other two 45/70s I had.
Im too weak boned to shoot them ever again.

 

[Nuthatch]

@Johnny Tremain , PM sent.

I had some time to kill this afternoon while my car was in the shop. So I wandered over to the sporting goods store & picked up some Hornady .458s in 300 grain. I didn't expect that they'd shoot well but I figured it would give me a sense of what might work -- spent $30 to learn something. Granted, they're jacketed, not pure lead or even hardcast lead. And I learned that they're too big to load. They weren't filling the grooves -- didn't figure they would anyway. But I broke my short starter. Darned thing was harder than the Lee REALs, which measured over groove diameter.

I feel like I'm getting closer, though. I know that a .452 bullet drops straight down the bore. At .454 knurled, it makes minimal contact and requires a tad bit of pressure. And at .458 (jacketed), it can't be loaded at all without a mallet. It may be that a .452 mould with bismuth, once cooled, could give me a bullet that is .455-.456 diameter. That's just .002" over bore and about in the middle. Thankfully, .452 is a commonly-produced mould with lots of options. So that might be my next move.

But weekends are for testing with powder and smoke. So that's what I hope to do tomorrow. I have some .430 hardcast to patch up & see if they fly well.

 

[Nuthatch]

A patched hardcast .430 165 gr RNFP patched inside my .45 still gives me the most accurate groups next to round ball. Everything else just isn’t flying straight and often fails to even hit paper. Taking the powder charge up from 50 grains to 75 grains required a much tighter patch — 0.022” denim. But it still put rounds on paper out to 50 yards and was still flying straight at 100. Not many hit the paper at 100 yards, though. That might be me, the shorter barrel & irons. But those that hit weren’t landing sideways. Still some work to do. But these patched conicals are still the most promising thing yet.

Beside the .430s today, I had knurled some hardcast .452s, 160 gr, with some different wadding materials. None gave any hint of accuracy.

 

[Nuthatch]

I had some work to do yesterday on my .45. The cloth-patched conicals are showing some promise. The photo shows 2 different groups at 50 yards (rested). The upper group was patched .440 roundball. The lower group was patched Lee .429-200 cast in lead. Both had the same 75 gr 3F Goex powder charge but I had a slightly thicker patch on the conical.

Unfortunately, this cleaned me out of my last can of Goex so I had to switch to Swiss. I ran 60 grains 3F Swiss and got similarly-sized groups. Surprisingly, I got better groups without any wads or *gasp* 3D printed plastic skirts (homemade PB option since I'm running hardcast, copper and Bi alloy bullets). Just a patched bullet seems to do okay. I ran some test shots out at 100 yards. I didn't really check my impacts very much until I picked up the target at the end of the day. I'm running some major Kentucky elevation out there with patched balls and 200 grain flat points. The wind was picking up a little by afternoon as well. But I think my best group was with a 90 grain charge of Swiss & was about 5" across. I'll confirm that when I get out there again in a couple of weeks. It's a shoulder puncher compared with a light roundball charge out of this 5 lb rifle. It reminds me of the old 30-30 light weight carbine I learned to shoot with as a kid. But if it can keep a group like that at 100 yards, I think it would be worth it.