Patent breech in Investarms/Cabelas (Lyman, etc.)?

[In Over My Head]

I saw a reference somewhere suggesting that my rifle might have a patent breech and that the breech face scraper I bought will not go down into the cavity of the patent breech to scrape it.

My rifle is a Cabela's/Investarms, .58 Hawken, Same as a Lyman and maybe a Traditions, I think.

Can anyone tell me what my breech face looks like? If it isn't flat, is there a source of a scraper to fit, or can someone tell me the diameter of the cavity and how it's shaped at the bottom.

TIA!

 

[necchi]

It's all much todo about nothing.
I ain't trying to be mean at all but the breech of the Lyman, T/C, Cabelas are all about the same and for the 25yrs I've been shooting those things I've never had to "scrape" the breech.
If you pull the barrel and do the bucket of water pump method of cleaning, you'll get everything out and never have anything left to scrape,,?

I've heard tell of folks using a 30 cal brush to reach into that hole for extra cleaning, but again, I've never had to do it, :idunno:

Other's may have a different experiance, but what ever you guys do, don't tell my rifles about it, I don't want them getting any wrong ideas, :wink:

 

[George T.]

Mine on my 58 (the same rifle) is tapered to a rounded end. A 38 brush with a large cleaning patch wrapped around it comes out looking rounded at the end. Do not use a brush that the wires are just crimped in or you'll be posting that it's in your barrel. After a year or so with this rifle and three years with Lyman's and T/C;s I'm not obsessed with this area.

If you use the cleaning method of pumping water thru the barrel and nipple with lightly soaped water you will get very little additional grime when using a cleaner. I spray or drop PB Blaster down the bore and apply more with patches. All has been well so far.

Geo. T.

 

[Junior1942]

The instruction manual for both my Lyman GPH and my Lyman Plains pistol, both 50 caliber, says to clean the "powder channel" with a 38 caliber brush or a slotted tip cleaning rod.

 

[bubba.50]

i've never really seen the need either but if it bothers ya t/c makes a scraper to fit this area that screws on yer ramrod.

 

[In Over My Head]

bubba.50,

I saw the scraper for the TC breech plug in the Log Cabin Shop catalog. that's what got me thinking about this.

Can we assume that the cavity in the .58 caliber Investarms breechplug is tha same size as the other calibers/same as the TC?

Thanks to all who have replied. One of the reasons I'm thinking along these lines is because I've pretty much settled on following the Dutch Schoultz method 100% as I learn about this rifle. His cleaning method does not involve flushing the barrel with water, just thorough patching, so I wondered what sort of exception to this method my patent breech might represent.

 

[FishDFly]

Thanks to all who have replied. One of the reasons I'm thinking along these lines is because I've pretty much settled on following the Dutch Schoultz method 100% as I learn about this rifle. His cleaning method does not involve flushing the barrel with water, just thorough patching, so I wondered what sort of exception to this method my patent breech might represent.



We all have our cleaning solutions and methods, Dutch has many fine recommendations in his writings.

If you do not flush a patent breech with water and out the nipple threads, how do you clean the bottom of the breach and nipple threads?

A T/C cleaning jag is not going to flush the patent breech or nipple threads out completely, it leaves lots of crud which blocks lots of areas.

If you rotate a "T/C jag" while cleaning, you will clog the nipple opening with crud and it will no longer fire, rotate clock wise for sure plugging.

 

[dledinger]

Personally, I would clean it with a brush and patch or mop. I didn't know about this when I first bought my Lymans...but after I learned and started cleaning I found that the breach harbors crud even after the hot water cleaning method.

 

[nkbj]

After pumping the bucket use an old cleaning brush with some paper towel or old tee shirt wrapped around it to wipe the breech hole. The soft material will conform to the shape and the fouling will be soft and clean right on out of there. By the way, if you're really lazy, I know from experience that wrapping paper towel around the cleaning jag so that it extends twisted out in front can let you accomplish pretty much the same thing.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

This is a tc flint breech plug. Lyman and investarms are essentially identical. Note the length between the thread face and the touch hole. The hollow is a shade less than 3/8 inch and almost an inch deep. In a 50 cal the jag will only go back as far as the thread face.

 

[nkbj]

Zimmerstutzen, that picture is worth a gazillion words.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Yep. It helps understanding the shape of the interior for maintenance, repairs, etc.

Some folks just assume that the breech face is flat and can't figure out why the jag does not go all the way down to the touch hole.

 

[In Over My Head]

Thanks for all the replies and helpful discussion.

Certainly that breech recess is no big deal so long as you know it's there and deal with it.

I poked around in there last night and found it was, indeed about an inch deep. My 3/8" rod won't drop in there but a brush for a .338 rifle, wrapped with a big, thick patch seems to work nicely.

What I really wish I could locate is a big patch loop with a 10-32 thread to fit my range rod.

 

[Leatherbark]

What I really wish I could locate is a big patch loop with a 10-32 thread to fit my range rod.

You can buy a 10-32 to 8-32 adapter at T.O.W

Bob

 

[plinker]

I have a 50 caliber GPR and have found that tyhe NYLON bore brushes from Brownells will get into the patent breach if you turn them clockwise as you push it down. You have to keep turning as you pull it out also. I figure that the nylon bristles have more flex in them than the bronze bristles.

The cleaning rod I have at the house is threaded for 10-32 on one end and 8-32 on the other end. This way I can use an 8-32 patch loop to get into the recess.

 

[In Over My Head]

Since the conversation continues, here's where I'm at: My range rod is 10-32 and my ram rod is God only knows what thread - 10-32 threads into it but the jag that came with it and threads into it doesn't thread into my range rod. Apparently the ram rod is something really, really close to 10-32 but maybe with a splash of metric thrown in?

Anyway, so far all my tools specifically for this rifle are 10-32. I have plenty of long rods in 8-32 that would reach down into the breech, but they are all free-wheeling, rotating rods. I figured I needed a non-rotating rod that could easily be twisted to get a patch covered brush back out of there, or I needed a 10-32 patch jag.

Rather than have a whole bunch of hardware with different threads, aka failure points, way down there in that breech, I made a solid 10-32 rod. I flattened the end of a 1/4" round steel rod and cut a slot in it. Now, once I put a handle on it and a bore protector, I'm in business for swabbing out the breech recess.

It's a bunch of rigamarole that I probably would have avoided if I just decided to flush the barrel out with hot water. But Durch's comments got me thinking that might not be the best way to clean my barrel. I have seen the threads about flash rusting and about the need to clean the bore again in a couple of days. I think Dutch might have this all thought out so I'm going to follow his advice of cleaning the bore (and the recess in the breech plug) by patching and then annoint it in Water Displacing-40.

 

[necchi]

I'm a follower of Brother Dutch, I got the system years back,,,
But to be honest, his cleaning instructions are the only thing I don't follow.

For me, and I know others swear by the stuff, but for me wd40 has no place anywhere near guns.
Never used it, Never will and I have no trouble with rust.
I ain't gonna put anyone down that does use the stuff, it just ain't my cup-o-tea.

 

[cynthialee]

:youcrazy:

lol

Just jerking yer chain.
I use WD-40. I even like the smell of the stuff.

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

Dude, don’t get wrapped around the axle about this, all the Lyman rods I have are 10/32. All I do is dunk the barrel in a tub of tepid water with a little dish soap run a wet patch up and down the bore with my rotating range rod and a jag. When the water out of the barrel is coming out clean I change to water without soap and run a wet patch up and down the barrel to flush out any soap residue. Then I run a couple of dry patches down the bore and then I put a 30 caliber nylon rifle brush and push a 2 inch patch down to the bottom of the breech chamber. I do this twice then I run a patch of BC Barricade on the jag down the bore. I take the same patch with Barricade that I just used and run it down the bore with the rifle brush to coat the breech chamber. By the way, Birchwood-Casey Barricade displaces water also. I'm done with the bore and breech chamber.

 

[In Over My Head]

Dude, don’t get wrapped around the axle about this, all the Lyman rods I have are 10/32. All I do is dunk the barrel in a tub of tepid water with a little dish soap run a wet patch up and down the bore with my rotating range rod and a jag. When the water out of the barrel is coming out clean I change to water without soap and run a wet patch up and down the barrel to flush out any soap residue. Then I run a couple of dry patches down the bore and then I put a 30 caliber nylon rifle brush and push a 2 inch patch down to the bottom of the breech chamber. I do this twice then I run a patch of BC Barricade on the jag down the bore. I take the same patch with Barricade that I just used and run it down the bore with the rifle brush to coat the breech chamber. By the way, Birchwood-Casey Barricade displaces water also. I'm done with the bore and breech chamber.

I don't think I'm quite wrapped around the axle yet, but I might have a loose strap near a wheel, I'll stop and look.

Frankly, as I was preparing to start using this rifle, the cleaning method you describe was where I was headed. But Dutch's material seemed to make a lot of sense - even his cleaning method.

As I gain some actual experience (and as I read more discussion of people who experience flash rust after flushing their barrel and who find manure in their barrel again a couple of days after cleaning it) I'll review what I'm doing.

Now I'm off to research Barricade.