Patterened some squirrel loads...

[Skychief]

In fooling around with my 12 gauge smoothbore, I had a surprise this evening. One of the loads I tried was:

70 grains 2f Goex
Hard card
90 volumetric grains of #6 shot
One full cushion wad lubed with Olive Oil

This load shot 85 pieces of shot into a standard 8 1/2" X 11" sheet of paper at 25 yards. In comparison, other loads today were good for 45-55 pieces of shot in a sheet of paper (at 25 yards).

The load listed above was tried again and I found it to be pretty consistent. I cleaned up and found some old turkey patterning sheets I have collected. This loading actually shot denser than my turkey load I have used for years (80 grains 2f and 120 volumetric grains of 6's with a thin shotcard topping it off). The new found load was actually denser from 25 yards than my standard turkey load at 20 yards! :shocked2:

Maybe I have stumbled onto something. Have any of you found you get denser patterns (from cylinder bores) when using a lubed cushion wad atop the shot charge?

Today's results beg for continued experimentation. That's fine by me as I love to tinker around with this smoothbore stuff! :thumbsup:

Best regards, Skychief.

 

[roundball]

Interesting...flies in the face of conventional thinking of not wanting a big heavy object in 'FRONT' of the shot column...when its thought that an OS card needs to be thin & light to quickly flip out of the way of the shot so not to disrupt the column.
:hmm:

Might be that the wad's lube on the bore walls helped reduce some pellet deformation which helped tighten the pattern, dunno...still would have thought the big heavy wad would have had negative effects on the shot column...but your results don't lie.
Odd it had not surfaced before now though, huh...

Next time I have the .28 or .20ga at the range I'll try to remember to test that too...

 

[Skychief]

Odd it had not surfaced before now though, huh...

Hey Roundball!

Not odd if we consider that I don't recall ever having tried a cushion wad lubed or not with olive oil atop the shot charge. It does seem counter intuitive though, doesn't it?

I have seen from my testing that cushion wads under the shot are not conducive to dense patterns. My gun loves to shoot donuts with full cushion wads sitting atop the powder. I have much better luck with only a hard card on top of the powder for turkey/squirrel patterns. Any patterns, really.

Thanks for chiming in and let us know results if you give this configuration a whirl.

Skychief.

 

[roundball]

Odd it had not surfaced before now though, huh...

Not odd if we consider that I don't recall ever having tried a cushion wad lubed or not with olive oil atop the shot charge. It does seem counter intuitive though, doesn't it?

Well, I was actually referring to all the years since smoothbores / shot loads were invented...I would assume all the experimentation on the basics has long since been done, indeed, resulting in the convention that OS cards need to be thin and light...even modern shotshells design was changed and actually eliminated an OS card altogether.

You'd think that this is too simple and obvious an alternative to have already tried, not to have been tested and discovered in the past couple hundred years....still, interesting the results that you got.

 

[Flintlock58]

Yes, the results are very interesting. Please let us know what your further experimenting shows. I have never had such results from thick over shot wads, lubed or not, in cylinder chokes. In fact the thick wads ( lubed or not ) over shot dont do well in my jug choke either. The patterns you shot with the lubed thick wad are very good ones to be sure.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I have had good success with using only cushion wads fore and aft of the shot charge when just out shooting clay targets. I have had good patterns but have NOT tested for penetration with this load. I usually just take some tight fitting wads rolled in olive oil pull them in half. Half after the powder and half after the shot. Since I do not use the card and wad components, I adopted this to be quick and easy and similar to tow fore and aft.

 

[roundball]

Right, there are published loads using Oxyoke wool wads above and below, but Skychief is talking about full size lubricated cushion wads, the point being the extra size / weight of that.

 

[Skychief]

It seems that I recall a recommended loading of 2 full cushion wads atop the powder and 1 full cushion wad atop the shot in the T/C manual for their New Englander 12 gauge.

I am using this smoothbore, but until yesterday had not tried a cushion wad to secure the shot charge.

Ya reckon those Thompson Center boys did some experimenting before recommending this? :hmm:

Skychief

 

[Skychief]

Also of possible interest.....I found where 2 of the cushion wads hit and went through one side of the cardboard box that held my paper targets at 25 yards. Remember that I tried this load 3 times...

Do you suppose the lubricated wad arrived at the target before any of the shot or sometime later? In other words, which would decelerate quicker: a lubed cushion wad or a piece of #6 shot launched at the same velocity?

Perhaps the wad is first to arrive and creates a sort of vacuum for some of the shot charge to follow all the way to the target, creating denser patterns versus a load without a wad leading the way. :idunno:

Where's Albert Einstein when ya need him? :rotf:

Skychief

 

[Cleburne]

Are you saying this load might take out squirrels with the wads rather than the shot?!?!? :shocked2:

 

[roundball]

T/Cs load data chart in their owner's manual does indeed list a shot load for a .56cal smoothbore...using a 1/2" fiber wad over powder, and another (single) 1/2" fiber wad over the shot.

I'd like to think TC actually tested it themselves, but no telling how much they depended on vendors / contractors for stuff like that.

 

[Skychief]

Are you saying this load might take out squirrels with the wads rather than the shot?!?!? :shocked2:

That reminds me of a grouse hunt I took part in with friends in Wisconsin years ago. That was a time when I used some heathen smokeless weaponry (sorry all). When retrieving a bird that I shot, we discovered I had hit it in the breast with a wad from my 20 gauge. The guys couldn't believe it. I never blinked when I told them the shot wasn't as good as they were believing. I informed them I had aimed for the flying bird's head, so, was a bit disappointed with my performance! :rotf: We had a nimrod of about 11 years old along and he bit on this and the look on his face ( :shocked2: ) was priceless!

Skychief.

 

Skychief,
Interesting thread. Yesterday we held a "lucky X" shoot as part of a program we had and I took along a 12 gauge that I out together on an underhammer action. The barrel is 36" and has a vent rib with double beads. We shot at a standard piece of paper, 8.5"X11", at 25 yards with an X. The result was a complete covering of the paper, with no donut holes, and a number of Xs. The load was 1 1/8oz of 7 1/2 shot over the same, by volume, 2F. 1 over powder card and 2 over shot cards, with NO cushion wad. I guess success is measured by results and this load sure worked.
Mark :thumbsup:

 

[Skychief]

Hey Papa....If you feel up to it and have some 6's laying around.....how about shooting a sheet of paper at 25 yards and letting me know how many strikes that gun will give at that distance?

Is you barrel unchoked? I would just like to see how our guns compare at 25 with 6-shot. :thumbsup:

I can see how this might be something of interest to the whole smoothbore group here. Maybe more could try different loadings with the same sized shot at 25 yards at a standard sheet of paper and share their results. We all might stand to learn a thing or two. Think there would be interest in this? :idunno:

Best regards, Skychief.

PS....I have made an executive decision. I will start a new thread and ask for participants. The hope is to learn how to shoot the densest pattern upon a standard sheet of paper at 25 yards with #6 shot out of a cylinder bored smoothie. Hope we find some takers!

 

[roundball]

Depending on what you're looking for, and to ensure comparing apples to apples, I suspect you'll want to have separate threads for each gauge?

ie: .28, .24, .20, .16, .12, .10...

 

Skychief,
It will be a wek or so before I am able to get out again but will be glad to try it for you. I picked this barrel up when a friend passed away and do't know if it is choked or not. Running a real tight patch doesn't show any tight or loose spots, if that means anything.
Mark

 

[Skychief]

Depending on what you're looking for, and to ensure comparing apples to apples, I suspect you'll want to have separate threads for each gauge?

ie: .28, .24, .20, .16, .12, .10...

Started the thread already Roundball. I asked that the gauge be mentioned. Heck, we may find that the smaller gauges will do as well or better than some of the bigger ones.

I expect you to get in on this. Don't let me down! :wink:

 

[Skychief]

Skychief,
It will be a wek or so before I am able to get out again but will be glad to try it for you. I picked this barrel up when a friend passed away and do't know if it is choked or not. Running a real tight patch doesn't show any tight or loose spots, if that means anything.
Mark

Sounds great Papa. Thanks for getting involved with this. See the other thread when you have a chance. :bow:

Skychief.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

T/Cs load data chart in their owner's manual does indeed list a shot load for a .56cal smoothbore...using a 1/2" fiber wad over powder, and another (single) 1/2" fiber wad over the shot.

Right, but since you have already made it clear to me we are talking about full size lubricated cushion wads, the point being the extra size / weight of that so I will now bow out.
:grin:

 

nice load. watch out bushy tails. Many an old 12 gauge that has been retired could be used if people forgot about the heavy load thing.