Pedersoli 1859 Sharps rifle bullet

[PapaVince]

Hey all,
Just came by a Pedersoli Sharps 1859 Infantry rifle and I'm going to use the brass cartridge shells . Never loaded a Sharps before. What is the best conical bullet and powder load for general shooting? Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[64Springer]

The very best thing you can do is go online and read, read, read and read some more.

Better yet, buy a book or two.

The information you seek out on your own will be much more beneficial than asking questions here.

Researched information is retained far more than spoon fed information.

.02

 

[pacanis]

My 1859 likes Christmas tree bullets, 60gr of Goex 3F and some corn meal filler.
I make paper cartridges. I don't recall the diameter.
Some with a tail, most without.

 

[PapaVince]

The very best thing you can do is go online and read, read, read and read some more.

Better yet, buy a book or two.

The information you seek out on your own will be much more beneficial than asking questions here.

Researched information is retained far more than spoon fed information.

.02

This is a form of research. Reaching out to others who have the same loaded the same shell for the same rifle have first hand experience. Interacting with those who have been there and done that bring real world experience to the matter. It is your duty to verify but I hardly consider reaching out and engaging others with experience "spoon fed" information. If you believe so--why are YOU here?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Search on the term ‘Sharps’ by member ‘Dave951’, as he is the resident expert on these matters. His sage advice, that I would heed, would be to slug your bore FIRST!

I like the ‘heeled’ bullet from Dixie Gun Works. If needed, you can size them using ‘push through’ sizers, see here:
https://www.northeasttradeco.com/online-store/SIZING-DIES-Threaded-c22095488

 

[64Springer]

This is a form of research. Reaching out to others who have the same loaded the same shell for the same rifle have first hand experience. Interacting with those who have been there and done that bring real world experience to the matter. It is your duty to verify but I hardly consider reaching out and engaging others with experience "spoon fed" information. If you believe so--why are YOU here?

I'm not here to be spoon fed, that's for damn sure.

I very rarely, if ever, ask questions of anyone because I do my own research and come to my own conclusions.

But I'm more than willing to offer my experience and advice to others. Most of the time.

You've been a member here for 11 months, but you've done nothing to contribute to this forum.

Yet your third post is to press people for knowledge that they spent decades collecting.

I've had a problem with those types of people all of my life.

 

[PapaVince]

I'm not here to be spoon fed, that's for damn sure.

I very rarely, if ever, ask questions of anyone because I do my own research and come to my own conclusions.

But I'm more than willing to offer my experience and advice to others. Most of the time.

You've been a member here for 11 months, but you've done nothing to contribute to this forum.

Yet your third post is to press people for knowledge that they spent decades collecting.

I've had a problem with those types of people all of my life.

Well bless your heart. Perhaps an anger management group would be of benefit. It's been an interesting conversation. Thank you for your sage advise and perspective.

 

[PapaVince]

Search on the term ‘Sharps’ by member ‘Dave951’, as he is the resident expert on these matters. His sage advice, that I would heed, would be to slug your bore FIRST!

I like the ‘heeled’ bullet from Dixie Gun Works. If needed, you can size them using ‘push through’ sizers, see here:
https://www.northeasttradeco.com/online-store/SIZING-DIES-Threaded-c22095488

I'll check that out thanks. Had some experience with heeled bullets on an 1889 Bodeo revolver. Appreciate the reply.

 

[Collie]

Well bless your heart. Perhaps an anger management group would be of benefit. It's been an interesting conversation. Thank you for your sage advise and perspective.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't leverage the experience on this forum, most people I've found are friendly and very happy to offer up their knowledge. I wouldn't exactly say you were "pressing" anyone for information with you post so I'm not sure what the "problem" is. Either way it looks like you got a couple of very informative responses. I'd also check out duelist1954 on youtube, if I remember correctly he has a few videos on the Sharps 1859 that are pretty educational.

 

[pacanis]

I'm not sure why you wouldn't leverage the experience on this forum, most people I've found are friendly and very happy to offer up their knowledge. I wouldn't exactly say you were "pressing" anyone for information with you post so I'm not sure what the "problem" is. Either way it looks like you got a couple of very informative responses. I'd also check out duelist1954 on youtube, if I remember correctly he has a few videos on the Sharps 1859 that are pretty educational.

Seriously.
Some of the best "research" I've found is by reading posts across many forums or finding reviews and then deciphering fact from fiction or sponsored information. Same as youtube or Wiki.

 

[PapaVince]

Thank you for your input. Have a great weekend.

 

[gemmer]

A few things you need to be aware of if you plan to use the brass tubes. The tubes are not easy to extract. I've never used them, but from what I have read, some people use a piece of stiff wire with a slight hook on one end to grab inside the touch hole. You will need a bullet with a heel that fits inside the case mouth. Perdersoli's Sharps bullet will do that, but you'll need their mould. Also their bullet is very heavy, around 500 grains. Other ring tail bullets may not fit. Regardless, you're going to need a mould. Slugging your bore is a good idea. Hopefully you'll find that you groove/groove dimension is .540. Mine is and I use a .544 xmas tree bullet , 30:1,which ensures a good gas seal. I initially made my own paper cartridges but quickly moved to Charlie Hahn's cardboard tubes which have an inside diameter of around 1/2". He makes them in a variety of lengths to suit your chamber length and bullet. Moose Moulds makes a ringtail mould that works nicely. Finally, you may find that the action on your rifle will bind up from fouling caused by a poor gas seal after as few as 4 or 5 shots. The permanent fix for that is to send your rifle to Charlie, or Larry Flees for a modification to fix that. You won't be sorry. There's info about that and Charlies tubes here. I also suggest the N-SSA Skirmishers forum at www.n-ssa.net. The guys there are very helpful and I've been a forum member for around 20 years. One last think. Start looking for musket caps NOW!!!!!

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Can’t help you with using those brass cartridges, but if you want to try Charlie Hahn’s system for paper tubes, here’s where you get them:

https://jaymescompany.com/hahns-sharps-paper-cartridge/
Here’s a heeled bullet of 544 diameter … which again … you may or may not be able to use.

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index.../product_name/BU0903+Cast+Sharps+Bullets+.544

 

[dave951]

You may get disappointed with the brass cartridges. They can be a bit of a pain to extract after a couple shots and need a range rod from the muzzle to get them out. Slug your bore first. Get the right size bullet. Learn to make paper cartridges.

A word on the bullet and sizing of a Sharps. The original "Christmas Tree" was an attempt to have all Sharps ammo fit all Sharps rifles because there was so much variance in the bore size. The rings of the bullet were designed to allow for that. If you know your bore size, ideally you want your middle band to be a "bore rider" ie, the size of your bore from land to land (that's the high part of the rifling). The next band will allow centering of the bullet in the throat of the chamber and will swage down to be the driving band in the rifling. This same thing works with the first ring being a bore rider and the second and third being driving but from my experience, it isn't quite as accurate.

Last, use real black powder, Swiss is best. Use only quality caps. The Sharps has a convoluted flash channel and a weak cap is a shortcut to frustration.

 

[Elkhorse]

Search for "sharps" on here, there is a lot of info.
You tube has a lot too.
Grind it all up and do what you want.

 

[Sun City]

I got sucked into that trap 25 years ago and wore myself out with it! Would have been better off sticking to Hawken rifles and ML for certain!!

 

[PapaVince]

A few things you need to be aware of if you plan to use the brass tubes. The tubes are not easy to extract. I've never used them, but from what I have read, some people use a piece of stiff wire with a slight hook on one end to grab inside the touch hole. You will need a bullet with a heel that fits inside the case mouth. Perdersoli's Sharps bullet will do that, but you'll need their mould. Also their bullet is very heavy, around 500 grains. Other ring tail bullets may not fit. Regardless, you're going to need a mould. Slugging your bore is a good idea. Hopefully you'll find that you groove/groove dimension is .540. Mine is and I use a .544 xmas tree bullet , 30:1,which ensures a good gas seal. I initially made my own paper cartridges but quickly moved to Charlie Hahn's cardboard tubes which have an inside diameter of around 1/2". He makes them in a variety of lengths to suit your chamber length and bullet. Moose Moulds makes a ringtail mould that works nicely. Finally, you may find that the action on your rifle will bind up from fouling caused by a poor gas seal after as few as 4 or 5 shots. The permanent fix for that is to send your rifle to Charlie, or Larry Flees for a modification to fix that. You won't be sorry. There's info about that and Charlies tubes here. I also suggest the N-SSA Skirmishers forum at www.n-ssa.net. The guys there are very helpful and I've been a forum member for around 20 years. One last think. Start looking for musket caps NOW!!!!!

I appreciate the detailed info. I'm good on caps. Bought a couple hundred musket and about the same number of # 10 and #11 caps a few years back when they were cheap and available. Loading the brass shells should be interesting. Have to discern the best powder charge for 100-200 yr shooting. Already thought about shell extraction and am modifying a dental pick to do the job. I'm on board with sending it out for the gas seal fix. I sure don't need more problems. Need it back by mid October though. My family is hosting a "black powder shoot" in the back field for my "Diamond Birthday" .
Anyway, I really appreciate your detailed and concise reply. I'm really looking foward to taking this sweetie out to play. FYI--I'm not in this for historical accuracy so picked up a new Malcolm scope to mount on it. What the heck--If I don't do it now--never will.!

A few things you need to be aware of if you plan to use the brass tubes. The tubes are not easy to extract. I've never used them, but from what I have read, some people use a piece of stiff wire with a slight hook on one end to grab inside the touch hole. You will need a bullet with a heel that fits inside the case mouth. Perdersoli's Sharps bullet will do that, but you'll need their mould. Also their bullet is very heavy, around 500 grains. Other ring tail bullets may not fit. Regardless, you're going to need a mould. Slugging your bore is a good idea. Hopefully you'll find that you groove/groove dimension is .540. Mine is and I use a .544 xmas tree bullet , 30:1,which ensures a good gas seal. I initially made my own paper cartridges but quickly moved to Charlie Hahn's cardboard tubes which have an inside diameter of around 1/2". He makes them in a variety of lengths to suit your chamber length and bullet. Moose Moulds makes a ringtail mould that works nicely. Finally, you may find that the action on your rifle will bind up from fouling caused by a poor gas seal after as few as 4 or 5 shots. The permanent fix for that is to send your rifle to Charlie, or Larry Flees for a modification to fix that. You won't be sorry. There's info about that and Charlies tubes here. I also suggest the N-SSA Skirmishers forum at www.n-ssa.net. The guys there are very helpful and I've been a forum member for around 20 years. One last think. Start looking for musket caps NOW!!!!!

You may get disappointed with the brass cartridges. They can be a bit of a pain to extract after a couple shots and need a range rod from the muzzle to get them out. Slug your bore first. Get the right size bullet. Learn to make paper cartridges.

A word on the bullet and sizing of a Sharps. The original "Christmas Tree" was an attempt to have all Sharps ammo fit all Sharps rifles because there was so much variance in the bore size. The rings of the bullet were designed to allow for that. If you know your bore size, ideally you want your middle band to be a "bore rider" ie, the size of your bore from land to land (that's the high part of the rifling). The next band will allow centering of the bullet in the throat of the chamber and will swage down to be the driving band in the rifling. This same thing works with the first ring being a bore rider and the second and third being driving but from my experience, it isn't quite as accurate.

Last, use real black powder, Swiss is best. Use only quality caps. The Sharps has a convoluted flash channel and a weak cap is a shortcut to frustration.

A lot of good info to absorb. I have a habit of high polishing brass cartridge cases.as well as chambers. It's amazing the difference it makes. I hope it works on this also. I will make the paper cartridges after sending the rifle out for the block improvement. The bullet issue is new ground for me so I much appreciate the detailed info. I only use real black powder anyway. Stored a pile of Goex. I have to look for some Swiss. I have a few hundred CCI winged caps saved up. Hope they will pass muster.

 

[PapaVince]

I got sucked into that trap 25 years ago and wore myself out with it! Would have been better off sticking to Hawken rifles and ML for certain!!

Just livin the dream. Always wanted one so decided to throw caution to the wind and go for it. At my age-- it's a now or never thing. Makin babies standing up in a hammock is difficult. This can't be as bad!

 

[dave951]

I appreciate the detailed info. I'm good on caps. Bought a couple hundred musket and about the same number of # 10 and #11 caps a few years back when they were cheap and available.

Don't waste your #11s on this. They don't have the ooompf to set off a Sharps reliably.

I have to look for some Swiss. I have a few hundred CCI winged caps saved up. Hope they will pass muster.

Only if they're the old 6 wing caps. The modern ones have been severely weakened thanks to a reenactor lawsuit to the point where they're only suitable for blanks. Past that, RWS and Scheutzen are the ticket.

 

[PapaVince]

Don't waste your #11s on this. They don't have the ooompf to set off a Sharps reliably.

Only if they're the old 6 wing caps. The modern ones have been severely weakened thanks to a reenactor lawsuit to the point where they're only suitable for blanks. Past that, RWS and Scheutzen are the ticket.

I wasn't thinking of using the #11's on the Sharps. The CCI's I have a 4 wing so I'm guessing no good?-- that sux!!