Pedersoli Brown Bess tools

[mattox]

Recently purchased a Pedersoli Brown Bess and was wondering which screwdriver and punch to use that match it.

 

[Rifleman1776]

"punch"? Wat fer?

Only screwdriver needed is to tighten the top jaw on the cock. Ye can make yer own. Don't tell the 'authenticity' police, but it helps to enlarge that top jaw screw slot a mite. Just a mite, a hacksaw will do it.

 

[Artificer]

Recently purchased a Pedersoli Brown Bess and was wondering which screwdriver and punch to use that match it.

First, WELCOME to the Forum!!

Since you didn't specify whether you are looking for an historically accurate tool or not, allow me to give you a link to "The British Y Shaped Musket Tool" thread. It may be sensory overload on the subject, but I tried to be thorough.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/.../brown+bess+Y+shape+musket+tool/fromsearch/1/

BTW, the most historically accurate repro's of these are threaded for the worm as is done Jymm Hoffman in the following link: http://paaba.net/Projects/ZMusket.htm

Though the Top Jaw Screw on your Pedersoli Bess has the hole in it (in addition to the screw slot) and that feature was not added until after the Short Land Pattern Musket that Pedersoli tried to copy was made, it makes it easy to use a 1/8" diameter pin punch to tighten/loosen the Top Jaw Screw.

Original Top Jaw Screw Slots were "V" shaped and not parallel sided as the Pedersoli Screw slots are. So either you buy a screwdriver that fits the slot correctly OR reshape one of the Turnscrew (screwdriver) blades on the British Y Shaped Musket tool OR file the Screwdriver Slot in the Top Jaw Screw to match the Musket tool or other Turnscrew (Screwdriver) you have.

What I did with my Y Shaped Tool was file the wide Turnscrew Blade so it correctly fits the side lock screw slots and filed the Narrow Turnscrew Blade to fit the Top Jaw Screw. I also filed down the "Round Punch" blade of my tool so it correctly fits into the hole in the Top Jaw Screw.

If you have questions, please ask.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

You want a Pickering Tool, not a multi-turn screw which is actually missing two pieces, a worm and a pick.

And you will want a 3/32" punch and a 1/8" punch Some folks opt for a set of Brass Punches

The nice thing about the whole set is IF you get some wood swelling so that the lock bolts or tang bolt, or forward sling swivel bolt, get stuck coming out, you can tap on the threaded tips inside the wooden stock using one of the larger diameter punches, and since they are brass, not worry too much about damaging the steel threads if you mis-hit.

This is a nice accessory for tapping out screws and pins, a 3 oz. brass hammer.

LD

 

[Rifleman1776]

Original Top Jaw Screw Slots were "V" shaped and not parallel sided as the Pedersoli Screw slots are

Yep. Mine, an early 70s Navy Arms version does not have a hole and the slot is very narrow. So, advice given is not a one size fits all deal.

 

[Artificer]

mattox,

With sincere respect to the Serjeant Major and considering how a Serjeant Major is never wrong, in this case the Serjeant Major is a little off on being completely correct. :redface: :haha:

BTW mattox, since you are new to the forum, I wanted to mention that is an bit of inside good humour between myself and Loyalist Dave.

You want a Pickering Tool, not a multi-turn screw which is actually missing two pieces, a worm and a pick.

First, I DO NOT recommend you buy the Pickering Tool for the following reasons:

1. The Pick on this tool is often/usually too large for the touch hole/vent hole on Pedersoli Muskets. That means to use them you usually have to file/grind them down to fit inside the hole to clean it out.

2. The Pick on this tool is hardened and that can wear out the touch hole/vent hole on your musket. (Yes, I have seen this on Pedersoli and Miroku Brown Bess Reproductions over the years.) Better to use a Soft Iron Wire to clean out the touch hole/vent hole.

IF AND ONLY IF you plan on doing reenacting as a Soldier, then a reproduction of the period "Whisk and Pick" is something both British and American Soldiers carried and used. However, only the pick is really useful if you are not doing a Soldier's impression - so I don't recommend buying one unless you intend to reenact. Here is a link that shows a repro of a period Soldier's Whisk and Pick: https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/122/1/PICK-BRUSH-H

3. The blades on these tools are often not as wide as they should be for the screw heads they tighten. I am not referring to the screw slot width, though. If the width of a blade is not close to the length of the screw slot, even if it fits the screw slot nicely, you can still bugger up the screw slot. Actually, the center blade is the most useful in my experience and that only when filed to shape to tighten or loosen the Top Jaw Screw.

4. You DO NOT want to use a Pickering Tool in your bare hands, especially when your hands are sweaty! It is okay if you have gloves on or wrap the tool in cloth or leather, but I have seen way too many people cut/slash/stab themselves with these tools when used in their bare hands.

I joke that the Pickering Tool was never intended to be used as a musket tool by the American Army during the Revolutionary War, but rather an infernal device that was intended to be captured by British Soldiers and they suffer wounds to their hands by using these tools. :haha: Seriously and with all kidding aside, I have seen even some well seasoned reenactors tear/rip up their hands pretty badly with these tools and a couple required numerous stitches.

I agree with the Serjeant Major that the "Multi Turn Screw" Tool or British Y Shape Musket Tool does not have a Worm with the tool, though the Serjeant Major did not mention the Pickering Tool does not have a Worm with it, either. However, the British Y Shape tool can be threaded for the worm to be attached (for storage of the worm) as shown in my earlier post and you can't do that with the Pickering Tool.

Here is a repro of a period worm that will fit the threads on your Pedersoli Steel Rammer (Ramrod): https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/851/1/WORM-DP

I unquestionably prefer the British Y Shaped Musket Tool over the Pickering Tool, because the British Tool doesn't tear up your hands and is easier to grip and tighten/loosen screws.

Yet, no matter which of these two tools you use, it is almost absolutely certain that you will have to file the slots in the screw heads to fit them OR file the blades to fit the screw slots as I did.

Now, there is a modern alternative and I just pulled out my circa 2000 Pedersoli Brown Bess to check the sizes of the screw slots to ensure this would work. You can buy the six sided modern Screwdriver Tip Bits to fit the Top Jaw Screw and the Side lock Screws, so you won't have to worry about filing the screwdriver blades or screw slots.

I have used the Brownell Magna Tip Screwdriver Bits for years professionally, to work on all kinds of guns, so I can recommend them highly.

Brownells Magna Tip Bit Sizes for Pedersoli Brown Bess
(These Two Bits are $ 3.99 Each)
For Top Jaw Screw
Bit Number: 360-6
Blade Diameter: .360
Blade Thickness: .050
Style: Thin Bit

For Side Lock Screws
Bit Number: 360-3
Blade Diameter: .360
Blade Thickness: .030
Style: Thin Bit https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith...-bits/magna-tip-super-set-bits-prod41568.aspx

There is a good chance you may already have a handle that will fit these bits, since screwdriver sets with different bits like this have been out for quite a while. If not, you can get a handle for them at many hardware stores or pay more for a handle from Brownells. https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith...ip-super-set-screwdriver-handles-prod400.aspx

Gus

 

[Grenadier1758]

In the opinion of this old Grenadier, get the "Y" tool. For keeping the touch hole clear, a whisk and pick is the best tool. I like a whisk with fore wire bristles and a soft wire vent pick.

I am not a fan of removing pins to take the barrel out of the stock. Such drastic action is not really necessary. I do think a punch or suitable nail is good for tightening the jaw screw if you have the hole, I have used a nail and I put a step at the tip to make a flint knapping awl. A sharp flint and a simple tool will keep the musket firing.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OOOPS I forgot to mention that a Spring Vise is a good idea.

Now I guess I will agree to disagree with Gus. The version of the tool that I suggested has two different sized screw tips. They fit the lock bolts and the lock screws without modifying either. IF you get the improper copy of the Y tool, and some of the modern screw driver tips that are out there, you have to get a joint file & equalling file to modify the screws on the lock and the lock bolts.
:idunno:
I never used the pick on the Pickering tool for the touch hole, but I have used it in the hole for the jaw screw. :wink:

The Y tool is too wide for you to use either screw tip on the small screw for the frizzen spring when you have applied the spring vice..., at least I found it awkward and a bad fit..., oh but I guess you can use one of the recommended, modern screw driver bits in that screw and the frizzen screw itself (after you've filed them to be a fit to the modern, American screwdriver tips).

I've never had a problem with gripping the Pickering tool, and interestingly, the back edge works for a quick knap on the bess flint edge, but I suppose others like the Y tool. OH before I forget, you'll need to buy a 10-32 Die to bring the Y tool closer to what it's supposed to be..., and a wrench to work that die.

I was just keeping it simple with stuff I know has worked. Since a lot of the guys seem to like the modern tools, there is always a basic tool kit with only a few extras, but that's a lot of extra dough, and I was thinking more on the lines of you might want's stuff you can also put in bag and carry to the field.

:idunno:

LD

 

[Artificer]

OOOPS I forgot to mention that a Spring Vise is a good idea.

Now I guess I will agree to disagree with Gus. The version of the tool that I suggested has two different sized screw tips. They fit the lock bolts and the lock screws without modifying either. IF you get the improper copy of the Y tool, and some of the modern screw driver tips that are out there, you have to get a joint file & equalling file to modify the screws on the lock and the lock bolts.
:idunno:
I never used the pick on the Pickering tool for the touch hole, but I have used it in the hole for the jaw screw. :wink:

The Y tool is too wide for you to use either screw tip on the small screw for the frizzen spring when you have applied the spring vice..., at least I found it awkward and a bad fit..., oh but I guess you can use one of the recommended, modern screw driver bits in that screw and the frizzen screw itself (after you've filed them to be a fit to the modern, American screwdriver tips).

I've never had a problem with gripping the Pickering tool, and interestingly, the back edge works for a quick knap on the bess flint edge, but I suppose others like the Y tool. OH before I forget, you'll need to buy a 10-32 Die to bring the Y tool closer to what it's supposed to be..., and a wrench to work that die.

I was just keeping it simple with stuff I know has worked. Since a lot of the guys seem to like the modern tools, there is always a basic tool kit with only a few extras, but that's a lot of extra dough, and I was thinking more on the lines of you might want's stuff you can also put in bag and carry to the field.

:idunno:

LD

I admit I have only worked on one Pickering tool in this century, but saw many of them used in the last quarter of the last century. Now, doesn't that make me sound like an ancient Geezer? Oops, guess I am. :rotf:

Here is what I found and what I had to do for one of our members who owned it. First thing I did was file the pointy end rounded so one would not impale oneself on it.

Next thing was working on the large Turnscrew (Screwdriver) Blade Tip. Since it was too thick for Pedersoli Side Plate Screw Slots, I annealed it then filed, stoned and sanded it to size. Then I rounded the sharp edges along the length and rounded each end a tiny bit. What that does is ensure there are no sharp edges to bugger up the screw slots OR to rip up the owners hands. Had to do the same thing on small Turnscrew Blade to correctly fit the lock screws. Then re-hardening and annealing was in order. This can be done with case hardening compound and a propane torch, though a Mapp Gas/Oxygen Torch is better and an Oxy/Acetylene Torch easier still. I know how to anneal the tips, but for those who don't, all they have to do is place the tool in the oven set on 450 degrees and after it heats up, put the tool in there for two hours. Let the oven cool down for a few hours after that, then take the tool out and it is properly annealed.

Bottom line, at least on the Pickering Tool I worked on, both blades had to be reshaped to fit the tiny screw slots in Pedersoli Muskets. Those blades might fit a Miroku or Indian Bess the way it came, but it would not fit the Pedersoli Screw Slots.

Now on my Y Tool, I also had to reshape both Turnscrew Blades the same way described above. I prefer to work the tool blades to fit the screw slots both because that keeps damage to the slots down, but also because any time the screws have to be replaced, you are once again faced with "new" tiny screw slots.

Since the Original Y Tools were only intended to be used on the Side Plate Screws and Top Jaw Screws, because Private Soldiers were not allowed to take their locks apart, that is part of the reason I did it that way. The other part is because the difference in screw slot sizes in both those screws on the Pedersoli Bess, that is shown in my post above.

The "punch" tip of my Y tool was a little large to use in the hole in the Pedersoli Top Jaw Screw hole, so I filed and rounded that to size, case hardened and annealed it as well. What I did not know at the time I did it was how the tools were often/usually threaded for the Worm to screw on that tip of the tool. So I guess I need to go back and thread that round "punch" tip for my Worm.

BTW, I don't recommend one buys one of the expensive Brownell's equaling files to reshape screw slots, unless they are a full time gunsmith. What I have done over the years is either use the appropriate size needle file or buy some rather thin files that will cut good screw slots, but are not nearly as expensive as the ones in Brownells.

As our Unit Artificer (Armorer) I followed period protocol and did not allow lock disassembly/assembly by any Private Soldier and NCO's who were not familiar with complete disassembly/assembly of the lock (and more importantly did not have the correct tools to do it). Now that wasn't just because of period protocol, it was more often the case they would lose a part or screw something up that I had to fix later. So I would either do it myself or disassemble the locks when needed, have them clean/oil the parts, and then I reassembled the locks.

Now don't get me wrong, I encourage and have trained people before to correctly disassemble/assemble locks, but I think that is more involved than the OP was asking about.

Also, when I first joined the Major's Coy of the 42nd RHR, the Black Watch; I was impressed that it was common practice that after blank firing, the soldiers would take the locks off their muskets (but not disassemble the locks) and clean/oil them and around the flash hole of the barrel. If there was time, they would clean the barrels during the day, but if not, they cleaned them each night. This was not only an accurate way to portray the period, but was also a good way to maintain the muskets.

Gus