Percussion caps in period

[Carbon 6]

They werent.

Lots of old mountain hands kept flintlock and for good reason, well into the caplock age. Drop your tin of caps in the snow and it's ruined. Once the caps are gone the gun won't fire etc.

I suspect once the flintlock became "obsolete" due to evolving technology. that they became cheap to purchase and thus found their way into the hands of many who could afford little else.

Flints could be found anywhere and Knapped into shape to keep the rifle going as long as powder was around. Hunters would even harvest balls from th insides of game and recast them in their mold.

I bet there are less than a dozen people on this forum with the ability to knap their own flints. Most people wouldn't know a flint rock if they tripped over it. I bet most mountain men/ trappers and the like didn't possess the skill either.

I think we need to separate the romance from the reality.

 

[Jconn1763]

Although, it didn't come from a fur trapper, I came across a period reference that sheds light on this very topic, years ago, while doing research. In 1841, John Bidwell was one of the first emigrants to California along the California Trail. After arriving in California, he is eventually employed by John Sutter and eventually establishes the town of Chico, CA. In his journal that he kept while traveling to California he mentions,"[m]y gun was an old flint-lock rifle, but a good one. Old hunters told me to have nothing to do with cap or percussion locks, that they were unreliable, and that if I got my caps or percussion wet I could not shoot, while if I lost my flint I could pick up another on the plains." In a memoir he wrote in 1890, he alludes to the possibility of everyone in his party being armed with flintlocks when they arrived in California, "We got out of provisions and were about three days without food. Game was plentiful. but hard to shoot in the rain. Besides, it was impossible to keep our old flint-lock guns dry, and especially the powder dry in the pans." He also mentions that Sutter had a quantity of old French flintlock muskets at Sutter's Fort.

 

[Stantheman86]

Audie Murphy hunted with a Kentucky long rifle because his family was poor and couldn't afford a cartridge rifle.

He was a good shot because when you need to shoot to eat , and you have some hand cast balls and a flask of powder to last the summer, you don't want to miss.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Siringo, I have photos on my phone from the Arabia Museum and it included percussion rifles and also some of Sharps rifles which were confiscated because they were headed to "free staters."

 

[Flinty Scot]

Just speculation, but a generation ago, most rural/farm folk would work on their own equipment, trucks and such; setting plugs, carburetors and such.many farmers routinely fix equipment, often making substitutes for parts not on hand.

Because these bits of technology are essential to them, they learn to keep it running.
When having a functional flint was basic to their survival, I'd expect that person would get familiar with chipping one from a chunk of flint, and be able to recognize it in the stream bed/on the ground if equally reliant on useable flints.

Knapping is not an essential skill for me, but I have recognized a chunk of flint in a dirt road. Sharpening a flint didn't take long to learn but I have yet to learn to knap from the chunk (I can still order flints-and food) but am working at it because it's part of the art of shooting flint.

 

[Stantheman86]

Pennsylvania only allows Flintlock firearms with iron sights during regular Muzzleloader Season, so if you want to hunt during this season, you need to use a Flinter.

Caps might as well not exist for you , during this season because you can't legally use them. If you get caught trying to sneak out with 1840s percussion technology you get fined heavily, lose your weapon and probably can't hunt for a while.

 

[FishDFly]

Rules are rules and gotta be followed.

Now if I had to wear period clothing, that would be a deal killer for me as I like my 2020 warm clothing, boots and hand warmers.

Rules seem simple to me.

 

[Billy Boy]

There isn't a mountain man who ever lived who wouldn’t have swapped his Lehman, Deringer, Hawkin, Gemmer, etc for a 94 carbine in an instant....if there was a dependable supply of ammunition for it.....

 

[Zonie]

There isn't a mountain man who ever lived who wouldn’t have swapped his Lehman, Deringer, Hawkin, Gemmer, etc for a 94 carbine in an instant....if there was a dependable supply of ammunition for it.....

There's no doubt that you are right but, let's not get into discussing modern cartridge guns on the forum.

 

[Pemmican]

In my opinion, cap & ball rifles were not common on the frontier until the mid-1840s, with them becoming increasingly popular thereafter.
Hanson's Trade Rifle Sketchbook illustrates various trade rifles and their dates of manufacture. Studying this little book you discover that the change-over by most makers does not occur until 1850. Certainly, cap-lock trade rifles were available though.
While the Hawken rifle was available early, it cost twice as much as a trade rifle, and buyers were a small and affluent group. In the Rendezvous era, up until 1840, the flintlock was king. Flints were more available, did not degrade by absorbing humidity, and were waterproof.
After all, get your supply of caps wet in a stream or river and they were done, leaving you with a useless gun.
And, mountaineers were a conservative lot.
The U.S. military did not adopt a cap-lock as a new service shoulder arm until 1842, and it otherwise remained the same old smooth-bore Springfield musket used since 1816, with older flint muskets being slowly converted to cap.
Most wagon train settlers would have brought what they had, or were able to purchase cheaply. In the 1840s that would have likely have been mostly flintlock Pennsyvania rifles and fowlers, or surplus muskets, or flintlock trade rifles.
The plainsman, I'm sure, was progressive enough, adopting better rifles when he deemed it practical. So, adopting a cap-lock would have been when settlements, trading posts, and riverboats assured him of re-supply.

 

[Elkhorse]

If I was headed west back then I would make sure I was able to:
Work on my rifle and bring parts.
Be able to knap Flint for rifle, knives and arrowheads.know how to find same
Be able to make bow's and arrows and atlatl.
Know universal sign language.
You get the idea.

 

[Shotgunblast]

I suspect once the flintlock became "obsolete" due to evolving technology. that they became cheap to purchase and thus found their way into the hands of many who could afford little else.



I bet there are less than a dozen people on this forum with the ability to knap their own flints. Most people wouldn't know a flint rock if they tripped over it. I bet most mountain men/ trappers and the like didn't possess the skill either.

I think we need to separate the romance from the reality.

Your gonna lose that bet.

 

[Essayons!]

In the past in other threads there have been posts of documentation of caps being shipped to the rendezvous etc. I suspect many of the trading posts and forts had them too as things got into the percussion era after 1835 or so. It would also be my speculation the average hunter/trapper shot less than we imagine. The exception may have been market hunters shooting bison. Even then he would only shoot what could be skinned in a timely manner. A tin or two of caps may have lasted a fairly long time. Your question is interesting and I wonder if there is any documentation on how after a hunter shot prior to 1850.

Yep, agreed! About 1840 onward the caplock was more common out west with river trade, etc. increasing..prior to that it was easier to obtain flint than a chance resupply of caps. Bear in mind that you can get flint wet, but not caps..

 

[Essayons!]

Your gonna lose that bet.

Just because the technology existed doesn't mean it was available. An example in LED TV's...the technology was around as early as 1978, but not commercially affordable much less available.

 

[Pemmican]

If I was headed west back then I would make sure I was able to:
Work on my rifle and bring parts.
Be able to knap Flint for rifle, knives and arrowheads.know how to find same
Be able to make bow's and arrows and atlatl.
Know universal sign language.
You get the idea.

It isn't a question of what you would have done. It's a question of what actually was done historically.
Whether mountain man, frontiersman, or plainsmen, you would have learned what you needed to know through your experiences along the way. If you survived long enough as a greenhorn that is.

A newcomer would have grown up on a farm in the East and would have already learned how to knap gun flints and maintain a flintlock rifle.
But, since rifles were one-offs made by local gunsmiths usually, or in quantity by large shops in the East, parts interchangeability did not exist.
No two guns were exactly alike. New parts were made and fitted by gunsmiths or blacksmiths.

I'm sure that the newcomer would have had no idea what an atlatl even was, and the Indian people would have long forgotten.
Making flint points was a skill that probably no easterner would have known, and there would be no person to show him before he left.
Bow and arrow making likewise.
If you learned any of these skills, you would have learned them from the Indian people themselves.

So, you would have departed West with a good rifle or fusil, knives, a couple of horses, and supplies for living off the land. You would buy additional goods at trading posts and settlements along the way.

 

[Kansas Jake]

If you were a young man and most who went to the mountains were, having a good rifle, knives, a couple of horses and supplies would have meant you were pretty well off back in the day.

 

[Shotgunblast]

Just because the technology existed doesn't mean it was available. An example in LED TV's...the technology was around as early as 1978, but not commercially affordable much less available.

But his bet was that there was about a dozen people on this worldwide forum who knew how to identify flint and knap their own flints.

 

[tenngun]

Although, it didn't come from a fur trapper, I came across a period reference that sheds light on this very topic, years ago, while doing research. In 1841, John Bidwell was one of the first emigrants to California along the California Trail. After arriving in California, he is eventually employed by John Sutter and eventually establishes the town of Chico, CA. In his journal that he kept while traveling to California he mentions,"[m]y gun was an old flint-lock rifle, but a good one. Old hunters told me to have nothing to do with cap or percussion locks, that they were unreliable, and that if I got my caps or percussion wet I could not shoot, while if I lost my flint I could pick up another on the plains." In a memoir he wrote in 1890, he alludes to the possibility of everyone in his party being armed with flintlocks when they arrived in California, "We got out of provisions and were about three days without food. Game was plentiful. but hard to shoot in the rain. Besides, it was impossible to keep our old flint-lock guns dry, and especially the powder dry in the pans." He also mentions that Sutter had a quantity of old French flintlock muskets at Sutter's Fort.

On the other hand
In 1831 Jedidiah Smith had a brand new Hawken Cap lock when killed on the Santa Fe Trail. Carson pick up his cap popper in ‘36 or 39 at Sams shop.

 

[TFoley]

Lead probably would have been a bigger issue if one was shooting alot. It is heavier and with a plains rifle with a large bore would have much more weight. 1000 caps isn't much weight, but 1000 balls or the lead to cast them is.

The Lewis and Clarke expedition solved the lead AND powder transport problem in the most clever manner. They had a large number of lead bottles cast, which they filled with powder. As and when they became empty, they were melted down into ball. If you get over to Fort Clatsop, up in the pointy bit of Clatsop County, Oregon, you can actually handle such an item, in replica form, of course. It was Messes Lewis and Clarke's over-winter quarters of 1805/6.

 

[Carbon 6]

Just because the technology existed doesn't mean it was available. An example in LED TV's...the technology was around as early as 1978, but not commercially affordable much less available.

Yet Pauley invented the cartridge breechloader before muzzleloaders would adopt the percussion system. Invention and adoption are clearly two separate things.